Can a Master have limitations
I agree completely with what you are saying Jeff. My point is why use an example that you will not defend? If you are worried that it would be percieved as a slam why bring it up at all. You made your point very well with out it. Thats all I am saying. I agree each maker has thier own strengths and weakness . Some guys do the freehand thing very well some do the classics and some just create art that happens to be smokable. They should each be judged in the particular style. Todd is correct in that there are very few that can do it all well.
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I didn't realize it would prove contentious or I wouldn't have used it. It's one thing to say something like "ya know, Detroit isn't the most charming city in the world." It's another thing to list publicly all the things you don't like about it. I'm just not willing to engage in a discussion wherein someone has misperceived my comment as a "slam."pipeyeti wrote: My point is why use an example that you will not defend? If you are worried that it would be percieved as a slam why bring it up at all.
Jess is a true master, but it doesn't mean he could make every single pipe everyone else has ever made. That was my only point.
Todd
Here! Here! lound and clear, Todd.
I originally posed the question because I beleive that a Master should know how to make all known classic styles. Whether he chooses to, is a personal choice. On the other hand I would not expect him to know how to sculpt a block, because that is a totally different talent. A sculptor can be a pipemaker but not neccessarily the other way around.
I originally posed the question because I beleive that a Master should know how to make all known classic styles. Whether he chooses to, is a personal choice. On the other hand I would not expect him to know how to sculpt a block, because that is a totally different talent. A sculptor can be a pipemaker but not neccessarily the other way around.
All the best,
Tano
Tano
This is a huge topic of debade between Fine Artists and Craftsmen, still going on today. You can probably assume that it is a matter of interest on his part. He most likely would rather spend his time sculpting than making a pipe, and if he wants a pipe he would probably get you to make one for him.
All the best,
Tano
Tano
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It's a fair assertion and I've not yet thought it all the way through. Certainly we all have a bit of a protectionist bent, and creating boundary markers is the way we as humans differentiate between ourselves and the "other." It's natural to build a wall around what we do personally and say that everything outside that wall is precluded from being defined in similar fashion to that which is inside. This is really worth spending some more time thinking about.kbadkar wrote:I should add that he believes if the object created is functional, it is not art, it is craft - no matter how artistically executed. He also the least pompous and down-to-earth guy I know.
Todd
He's entitled to his opinion, but I believe differently. I recently mentioned to Kurt, privately, my view on the art/craft thing: Craftsman - primarily technical accomplishments; Artist - primarily fine art accomplishments; Artisan - a combination of both in varying degrees into which category both knifemaking and pipemaking fall. It sounds as if your friend is trying to defend his domain of Fine Art against Craftsmanship. I believe Artisanship bridges the two.kbadkar wrote:I should add that he believes if the object created is functional, it is not art, it is craft - no matter how artistically executed. He also the least pompous and down-to-earth guy I know.
I fail to see how your friend could view this Gotoh pipe as not worthy of being called art, since it combines the supreme skill of an Artist, yea(arch.), a sculptor, while still being a functionally Crafted pipe, the accomplishment of a Master Artisan:
[img]http://pipedia.org/images/thumb/2/28/KE ... Pipe05.jpg[/img]
Having said all this, let me add one more thing: Neither a Rodin sculpture nor a Bo Nordh pipe give a crap who made them - it is we egotistical humans who try to make these distinctions. If this weren't the case, this thread would have wound down after a couple of posts.
Regards,
Frank.
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Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
Frank.
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Grouch Happens!
People usually get the gods they deserve - Terry Pratchett
I do too. Not sure why though. I haven't fleshed it out with him, because there's no sense in debating with Winnie-the-Pooh. He'll just continue licking the honey pot, humming a rhyme that's awaiting verses.Frank wrote:He's entitled to his opinion, but I believe differently.
I think his point is that art is for art's sake, and therefore has a different "purpose", but that's not meant to diss craftsmenship and the sublime beauty form and function can achieve in the right hands.