Intent verse Result

[billiard]

Intent verse results is something to ponder.

I hope Ernie doesn't mind me quoting him (a bit out of context) here.

We cannot judge a pipe by the intentions behind it. If we did, then every newbie pipe on this forum would sell for what a Former/Toku/TJ pipe (or whatever pipe they were trying to emulate) went for because it was their INTENTION to make that pipe. That would be crazy. We have to judge a pipe based on results.

I'm a new pipe maker - now admittedly I have been making pipes for several years BUT my shop time is extremely low with a many hour job, wife, 3 kids, etc - I spent a long time just on cobs and I have gone months in between making a pipe . I am trying hard to dedicate time to it, but the day job that pays the bills, the family, etc must come first. So some newbs get more experiences in 2 months then I have gotten in 2 years.

This pipe I am posting sort of illuminates the intent verse results - at least how I am thinking about it (I'm not trying to say how Ernie thought) You can read the write up of this pipe on my website here if you are interested: http://www.billboylepipes.com/thecargohold.html

My Intent was to make a variation of a Pete Kinsale (An XL something I don't remember its out in the shop) however when I was turning the top of the bowl in the lathe I hit a flaw the size of Texas and I decided to raise my rings higher so that I wouldn't be cutting rings right over the flaw.

This minor change really changed quite a bit. If you look at the profile pics and you imagine the rings farther down, and the ring diameter a little wider then I wouldn't have the chin issue as my angle would be steeper on the front of the bowl. Also the back of the shanks flaring would match much better.

So while I am happy with my workmanship (e.g. stem shank junction, indexing properly full 360, passes a pipe cleaner poifect, etc.) the shape (once again for me) looks quite like a newby pipe.

However that was not my intent, and one needs to put their ego aside when new and just accept the facts. I wouldn't call this an "Ugly" pipe but it certainly is not what I intended.

I think, and after speaking with a senior guy, I would have been better off to just toss the block and started again with a new block, when I hit the flaw. I tend to be cheap bastard though and I tried to rescue it.

The Result - this got my BB stamp and well the price was lower than what I shall say online, lol.

Alright pics:








I think I have a bad rep on here as not accepting criticism, this is not true, you are welcome to say whatever you want good or bad and I will apologize again if I cam off bad previously. While I am just a hobbyist and this is my private recluse from the job and family (in another words my few hard earned minutes of alone time to myself out in my shop): I am trying to become a better pipe maker. I just am okay with a slower pace up the learning curve than some

Holy cow I wrote a book,
Bill

[e Markle]

I hope Ernie doesn't mind me quoting him (a bit out of context) here.

Of course not.

I think I have a bad rep on here as not accepting criticism, this is not true, you are welcome to say whatever you want good or bad and I will apologize again if I cam off bad previously. While I am just a hobbyist and this is my private recluse from the job and family (in another words my few hard earned minutes of alone time to myself out in my shop): I am trying to become a better pipe maker. I just am okay with a slower pace up the learning curve than some

I don't think anyone thinks negatively of you. You have posted clearly that you aren't looking for criticism several on several pipes - no problem! I don't want anyone to feel like they can't post pics of a pipe; I do want the general atmosphere to be one of "Pursuit" (of excellence), but that certainly doesn't mean that people will progress at different speeds for different reasons (e.g. time constraints). We should expect some people to be slower and others faster; I'm more concerned with the attitude that goes with learning.

Besides, there's absolutely nothing wrong with not making a Lars Ivarsson level pipe - which is great news for me!

[Sasquatch]

Predictably, I like that pipe a lot, Bill.

Going in to make a pipe and grabbing a block and getting THAT EXACT pipe with no issues, no flaws, no oopsies..... it's pretty rare. It's what you wind up with when you do hit that flaw or miss a cut or whatever that counts. This is why making 20 identical pipes is just about impossible (with 20 blocks - with 100 blocks you can).

[e Markle]

Also, this is a thought provoking read on the topic. The first time I read it, I was violently opposed to his position, but it makes much more sense to me now.

[billiard]

Predictably, I like that pipe a lot, Bill.

Going in to make a pipe and grabbing a block and getting THAT EXACT pipe with no issues, no flaws, no oopsies..... it's pretty rare. It's what you wind up with when you do hit that flaw or miss a cut or whatever that counts. This is why making 20 identical pipes is just about impossible (with 20 blocks - with 100 blocks you can).

You know it's funny Sas, you aint alone in liking it, though I am not advertising anywhere or posting on any other forums: I've gotten more positive feedback on this pipe (from my mailing list and etc) than anything in awhile. Kinda neat if I think about it from the perspective you mentioned. Though you know me, I am still gonna beat myself up about it till I can make another one (to beat myself up over, LOL).

Also, this is a thought provoking read on the topic. The first time I read it, I was violently opposed to his position, but it makes much more sense to me now.

I remember reading that a couple years ago and will need to revisit it, thanks for the link.

[d.huber]

Yup. Great article from Todd.

[wisemanpipes]

TJ's blog posts are full of awesome reads. I especially enjoy this one.

Bill, I like it, very Irish. (4 leaf clover smilie)

Evan

[LatakiaLover]

Alex Florov considers this subject to be at the very center of artful pipemaking. His own view is that a carver should never settle for what the wood will allow, because you'll never---ultimately---be happy with the result. That you might be able to talk yourself into it for a time, but down the road you'll regret having made the compromises necessary to salvage the block. Not regret it in a practical way, but an artistic one. That one day you'll look back on your body of work still feeling unfulfilled, and that your best work---what could have been your best work---lives only in your heart, and has never been seen by anyone but you. Then, years of this will eventually cause your subconscious to avoid sources of pain, and you'll eventually quit carving out of sadness.

How very and inimitably Russian. In a way, he described an entire culture's approach to artistry. Indeed, an entire culture's approach to the world.

If you ever have this conversation with him, btw, be warned that bringing up monetary considerations of wasted wood and wasted time is a landmine. You will be showered with scorn, and made to understand that such thoughts existing in your head is proof that you aren't ready yet, and never will be until you get your priorities straight.

It's easy to dismiss all that as being a bit over-the-top until you look at the pipes that have been coming out of Russia the past few years. All they needed, apparently, was the Internet for materials and sales. Everything else they've had in their heart for centuries.

[Tyler]

I think, and after speaking with a senior guy, I would have been better off to just toss the block and started again with a new block, when I hit the flaw. I tend to be cheap bastard though and I tried to rescue it.

My only critique, ignore the senior guy. Many a great pipes have been made due to creative working around flaws.

In other news, I am not at all aware of you having a bad reputation. A reputation of being unfairly hard on yourself, yes. A bad reputation? Not at all.

[Tyler]

Alex Florov considers this subject to be at the very center of artful pipemaking. His own view is that a carver should never settle for what the wood will allow, because you'll never---ultimately---be happy with the result. That you might be able to talk yourself into it for time, but down the road you'll regret having made the compromises necessary to salvage the block. Not regret it in a practical way, but an artistic one. That one day you'll look back on your body of work still feeling unfulfilled, and that your best work---what could have been your best work---lives only in your heart, and has never been seen by anyone but you. Then, years of this will eventually cause your subconscious to avoid sources of pain, and you'll eventually quit carving out of sadness.

How very Russian. In a way, he described an entire culture's approach to artistry. Indeed, an entire culture's approach to the world.

If you ever have this conversation with him, btw, be warned that bringing up monetary considerations of wasted wood and wasted time is a landmine. You will be showered with scorn, and made to understand that such thoughts existing in your head is proof that you aren't ready yet, and never will be until you get your priorities straight.

It's easy to dismiss all that as being a bit over-the-top until you look at the pipes that have been coming out of Russia the past few years. All they needed, apparently, was the Internet for materials and sales. Everything else they've had in their heart for centuries.

I would argue the exact opposite of Alex. If you limit your creativity to only what can be accomplished with a flawless medium, you are saying you lack the ability to dance artistically with the cruel realities of surprise.


P.S. My most recent sold pipe was intended as a tomato, but became an acorn due to a huge flaw. It's my favorite pipe I've made to date.

[LatakiaLover]

I would argue the exact opposite of Alex. If you limit your creativity to only what can be accomplished with a flawless medium, you are saying you lack the ability to dance artistically with the cruel realities of surprise.

The Chicago guys should sell tickets to a Saturday evening sit-down debate between you and Alex. A live cable feed to a jumbotron over the stage, and taped for later YouTube-ization. Be one HELL of a show.

[Tyler]

I would argue the exact opposite of Alex. If you limit your creativity to only what can be accomplished with a flawless medium, you are saying you lack the ability to dance artistically with the cruel realities of surprise.

The Chicago guys should sell tickets to a Saturday evening sit-down debate between you and Alex. A live cable feed to a jumbotron over the stage, and taped for later YouTube-ization. Be one HELL of a show.

I'm game.

I'm sure it will be edge-of-the-seat entertainment for about 4 people on the planet.

[RadDavis]

I'm sure it will be edge-of-the-seat entertainment for about 4 people on the planet.

I bet it would be at least 5.

Rad

[Yak]

Deleted as irrelevant.

[RadDavis]

Many a great pipes have been made due to creative working around flaws . . . If you limit your creativity to only what can be accomplished with a flawless medium, you are saying you lack the ability to dance artistically with the cruel realities of surprise.

Rossini's approach in a nutshell. He wrote scads of operas. He worked at breakneck speed and every time he came to a difficulty, he pulled some ingenious improvisation around it out of his hat and went merrily on. As a result, they're sections of genius held together with stagecraft duct tape.

In his last one (the Barber of Saville) he got serious about his craft and worked every detail of it through to a solid conclusion. That's the one that's never stopped being performed -- it's had a run of more than 175 years.


FWIW

What's your point here, Yak? Are you saying that creatively working around flaws is "sections of genius held together with stagecraft duct tape"?

Rad

[wisemanpipes]

most of Yaks comments are "sections of genius held together with stagecraft duct tape"

backdoor compliment

[andrew]

Many a great pipes have been made due to creative working around flaws . . . If you limit your creativity to only what can be accomplished with a flawless medium, you are saying you lack the ability to dance artistically with the cruel realities of surprise.

Rossini's approach in a nutshell. He wrote scads of operas. He worked at breakneck speed and every time he came to a difficulty, he pulled some ingenious improvisation around it out of his hat and went merrily on. As a result, they're sections of genius held together with stagecraft duct tape.

In his last one (the Barber of Saville) he got serious about his craft and worked every detail of it through to a solid conclusion. That's the one that's never stopped being performed -- it's had a run of more than 175 years.


FWIW

I think this is a fantastic example. My opinion is that if he applied the same intensity of that last opera to his entire career he would have burned out. I think this is somewhat related to a post in another thread. You are not going to produce master pieces every time you sit down to the bench, but at some point, if you are a master, something great is going to come out that will stop people in their tracks and turn their heads. That level of intensity needs to ebb and flow, if it doesn't you'll end up mailing your ear to a girl.

So, back to the original topic. Bill, I like the pipe and always like seeing your beautiful stem work. This one is no exception. It's a fine pipe. You did the right thing by finishing it and the result says that you are a capable carver.

[Nate]

I'm sure it will be edge-of-the-seat entertainment for about 4 people on the planet.

I bet it would be at least 5.

Rad

Make it 6, I would totally watch that.

[The Smoking Yeti]

I'm sure it will be edge-of-the-seat entertainment for about 4 people on the planet.

I bet it would be at least 5.

Rad

Make it 6, I would totally watch that.

And 7. Isn't it a bit late to be posting Nate? Do you ever even sleep?

[billiard]

Thanks for the kind comments on this pipe everyone, I appreciate your thoughts.

Honestly I think that would be a fascinating debate , what's that 8 we are up to now? It's something I could spend a lot of time thinking on, when I am in the shop.

BTW - The Seattle opera did the Barber of Seville about 2 years ago, I couldn't afford tickets but I did watch the Bugs Bunny version on TV