Briar showed up...and 5 hours later...

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:52 pm

Yep it finally showed up! I was getting antsy!

This would be my third (fourth if you count the pile of sawdust before this one

) briar pipe so far. I like short and stubbies, so that's what I did, it is a wee thing, roughly 4.5" long, 1.75" tall, by 1.25" at its widest point, the bit is a an ebonite oval saddle. The chamber is 7/8" diameter by 1 3/8" deep. Tenon is 5/16".

The stain is dark brown to pop the grain, buffed to show the nudey. It has a few specks and one small crack on the side of the bowl (you can see it), but it isn't too bad I guess. Its really about learning shaping now anyway. It has some decent Birdseye as well. I know the shank transition to the stem is not smooth, I wanted it to have that lip. I know the stem shows a few light scratches, but this is what happens when your work is interrupted by a dropped red fiebings dye bottle that makes you look like you've just been shot...red splatters to the face, shirt, and red puddle in the floor...stupid fiebings lids!!!!

After that I just wanted it done!

Smokes smooth and free, no gurgles or whistles.

No bad for an eBay batch block!

Thanks for looking!

Pipe20001 by Archersphoto, on Flickr

Pipe20002 by Archersphoto, on Flickr

Pipe20003 by Archersphoto, on Flickr

Pipe20004 by Archersphoto, on Flickr

Pipe20005 by Archersphoto, on Flickr

Pipe20006 by Archersphoto, on Flickr

Pipe20007 by Archersphoto, on Flickr

Pipe20008 by Archersphoto, on Flickr

Pipe20009 by Archersphoto, on Flickr

Pipe20010 by Archersphoto, on Flickr

taharris · Post by **taharris** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:07 am

You did a nice job! Its an early pipe, so there are a lot of details yet to work on, but it's a really cool design!

(It looks a hell of a lot better than some of my early pipes

)

Now clamp it between your teeth and go make another. This time focus on making the transition between the stemmel and the stem seamless and spend more time sanding.

Todd

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:21 am

Thanks Todd for the help and encouragement! What areas did you feel needed more sanding attention? The reason I ask is this thing was shiny smooth even before I buffed it! The only thing I can see is maybe the top of the bowl with the straight dark lines, but isnt that grain? This was the shiniest best finish I have put on one yet! I know the stem needed it! I will correct that in the future!

I have had some suggestions to counter sink the stem into the shank as opposed to running it smooth, any thoughts? Wouldnt that look off with an oval stem and round countersink?

Any other tweaks?

I really appreciate all the help!

Clamping these things in my teeth while making others into dust has become a favorite past time!

Eric

wdteipen · Post by **wdteipen** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:37 am

The best advice I can give is to pick a traditional shaped pipe from a well known maker that you like and try to replicate it until you get it right. What are you using to do your rough shaping? If you lack a decent power sanding setup, get yourself some rough files or rasps and work on getting more defined shaping. Keep it up and you'll get there.

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:55 am

I use a lathe to turn it to round, then use a chucked up sanding disk with around 120 grit to rough shape, then I mount on a dowel in a bench clamp and hand sand using 1/2" to 1" strips at 150,240,320,400,600. On this one I decided to go a bit further after 600 using the micro mesh series up to 12000. Then buff with brown, white, and carnauba, then clean flannel.

What I liked about this most and what I did well (I thought anyway

) was the definition around where the shank meets the stummel and the buffing. For once I felt like I got some good definition there as opposed to others I have done, a "nice cut" so to say. Where would you define it further at Wayne?

The shape was more or less dictated by a smallish briar block. If I had turned it to complete round it would have left very thin bowl sides all the way around, and I didnt want that! So I decided to flatten the sides and use it that way. I know it looks VERY simple in shape, but I dont mind that. I have a 7/8 chamber bit, but I would like to see what opinions are regarding smaller chambers?

FWIW, I am asking these questions to learn, I dont want to sound presumptuous about anything, and I really appreciate the experienced guys and all the help!

jogilli · Post by **jogilli** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:07 pm

I second what wayne said.. even if it is a small block.. pick a small pipe..

here are some good reference links of some of the best photos that can be looked at

http://www.alpascia.com/groupIndex.asp?list=14095..1

http://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/

http://demo.scandpipes.com/

http://www.bisgaard-pipes.com/default.a ... ue&lang=bb

and Scott takes awesome pictures.. http://www.sethilepipes.com/index.php

james

SchmidtN · Post by **SchmidtN** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:00 pm

I think it's a great pipe.

Only concern I have is, how deep is that crack in photos 20006 and 20007. I know that's the wood, not your fault, but I'd be slightly afraid to smoke it if I thought it had a crack through the bowl wall.

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:12 pm

SchmidtN wrote:I think it's a great pipe.

Only concern I have is, how deep is that crack in photos 20006 and 20007. I know that's the wood, not your fault, but I'd be slightly afraid to smoke it if I thought it had a crack through the bowl wall.

I appreciate it! The crack doesnt show on the inside of the bowl, if the terminaion lines on the outside indicate anything, the hopefully it means its not too much deeper, the crack DID run along the entire length of the raw block. I'll smoke it til I burn it I guess!

HumblePipe · Post by **HumblePipe** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:42 pm

Nice pipe Newcarver, sorry that you had to deal with that crack...

wdteipen · Post by **wdteipen** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:38 pm

A 7/8" chamber is too big for such a narrow block. It would have worked out better if you drilled 3/4" then you would have had enough briar to turn it round. Also, the Dublin shape works best with a conical bowl so you'd need a cooresponding chamber bit. That block looks like it was plenty big enough to make a group 3 billiard. As far as definition, the shank should be turned down much more slender and taper only slightly given the overall length of the pipe. The stem is pretty short and having a thick undefined shank makes it look even more so. Don't be afraid to take more briar off. Lastly, the definition on the sides where the shank meet the bowl are more defined but is taking the wrong angle inward where it should basicly match the same line as the back of the bowl. Hope this helps.

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:16 am

wdteipen wrote:A 7/8" chamber is too big for such a narrow block. It would have worked out better if you drilled 3/4" then you would have had enough briar to turn it round. Also, the Dublin shape works best with a conical bowl so you'd need a cooresponding chamber bit. That block looks like it was plenty big enough to make a group 3 billiard. As far as definition, the shank should be turned down much more slender and taper only slightly given the overall length of the pipe. The stem is pretty short and having a thick undefined shank makes it look even more so. Don't be afraid to take more briar off. Lastly, the definition on the sides where the shank meet the bowl are more defined but is taking the wrong angle inward where it should basicly match the same line as the back of the bowl. Hope this helps.

Yes Wayne, that was more precise, and thank you for the input! It is easier to understand when the details are laid out!

I agree with the transition of the bowl to shank, now that youve pointed it out!

I agree, I wanted a smaller bowl, yet I dont have a 3/4 spade ground for it, I suppose I need to get to grinding or order one! Might as well order a set!

How thin can the bowl sides be before burn out becomes an immediate issue?

What is the smallest chamber size useable?

Is it taboo for guys to make non conforming shapes before the first 50 pipes? How have we ended up with all these different shapes that we have so far without guys stepping outsaide of whats "popular" or normal? Or is this an area left for the guys who do this for a living? Is it possible our perceptions of whats right or wrong be limited by what has already been done? Where's Walle? JK!!

Yes I have read and searched all about why it is important to get the "normal" pipes down to an art first. I also get that it has a lot to do with muscle memory, etc. I understand all that. I also understand that if you plan to sell a pipe, that an "off" version of a popular style is better than an unkown or untested style.

Again, see comment above about respect to the powers. I would ask these questions if I were your apprentice and face to face in your shop. This is why this forum is here, to ask questions and learn, it is much appreciated!

wdteipen · Post by **wdteipen** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:23 pm

Newcarver wrote:How thin can the bowl sides be before burn out becomes an immediate issue?

There's no standard but anything less than 1/4" starts to make for a pretty hot smoker.

Newcarver wrote:What is the smallest chamber size useable?

Technically, you could go as small as you want but the industry standard would be 11/16". I've not seen anything beyond novelty pipes with smaller chambers than that. 3/4" and 13/16" seem to be the most common with 7/8" and 1" being reserved for XL pipes and pots mostly.

Newcarver wrote:Is it taboo for guys to make non conforming shapes before the first 50 pipes? How have we ended up with all these different shapes that we have so far without guys stepping outsaide of whats "popular" or normal? Or is this an area left for the guys who do this for a living? Is it possible our perceptions of whats right or wrong be limited by what has already been done? Where's Walle? JK!!

Not only is it not taboo, it's very common in my limited experience to see new carvers come out of the gates trying to make unusual, nontraditional shapes. Some are more successul at it than others depending on their natural (as opposed to learned) talent. It's fun to release that pinned up creativity in an unharnessed way at first. The problem with doing so for a new carver is that there isn't any standard to measure your work to; whereas traditional shapes are very well established forms with which to gauge your success. New carvers often have grand ideas of pipes to create but often lack the skills to successfully turn a chunk of wood into what we envision. While trying to make pipes beyond our skill level can challenge us and push us to advance our skills it can also be an exercise in frustration. Taking this route, you have to be prepared for many disappointing failures and wasted (and often expensive) resources. Being creative is important in any artistic endeavor; but there's merit to learning some basics first as a foundation to build that creativity on. Note that while his pipes ooze creativity and nontraditionalism, Roger Wallenstein can still make beautiful traditional shapes when he wants to.

This is advice that was given to me and other older members on this forum some time ago by several of the pros that are not as active here anymore and it's very wise and solid advice. Take it or leave it. For what it's worth, I was like you at first and just wanted to do my own thing. It wasn't until I learned to harness my creativity that I started seeing more drastic improvements in my pipemaking skills.

Keep asking questions and be prepared for honest opinions as answers. Then apply them to your craft as you see fit. Once you set aside your pride in your creations you'll be more open to constructive criticism to hone your craft. I'm not there yet either but I'm getting closer with each pipe so long as I stay humble and accept that I have a lot more to learn and improve upon.

Peace,
Wayne

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:14 pm

Let me say this, in this most unperson-able format that constitutes a "message", which in no way imparts humor or sincerity the way we would rather it be presented. I hate that I can never tell who is being serious, funny, or helpful!!

Wayne, thank you for your help and your advice is solid and logical.

I have always wanted to be clear that I am not full of pride and headstrong. I know you guys have seen bunches come and go and you don't know me from Adam, so you should expect nothing less when THE SAME question gets posed over and over, but I have found happiness in this nutcase obsession!

The answers to the tech details will be used dutifully in future attempts.

Of the three

(I know, ready for the big time eh) "Briar" pipes I have made, only two have taken the shape I sat down, designed and intended for them to take. The first one, posted in crappy cell pics, was an exercise in baby steps for sure. I have used a lathe and its tools to make many things, but when you make a pipe on a lathe, all experience goes out the door and you become yet again a child!

The second funky one went exactly as planned, and this one, went exactly as planned.

If I try to emulate a style that hones my skills, in the future I will say that and expect the critique to come based on what I am attempting. If I make a funny looking pipe, then I will simply ask if anyone likes it. The thing may be ugly to everyone but me, but I am pleased with my efforts so far!

With all due respect and no intention of starting a war! Thank you all!!

*Edited for smileys and cuz I finally got to a laptop instead of an ipad.*

wdteipen · Post by **wdteipen** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:01 am

Newcarver wrote:I have always wanted to be clear that I am not full of pride and headstrong.

Oh, I wasn't implying you were prideful and headstrong. I hope you didn't take it that way. It's very difficult to put thoughts into words while communicating intent on the internet. I was mostly thinking back to my first few pipes and how proud I was of them (even though they were pretty bad) and proud of myself for being able to make them with limited knowledge, experience, and tools. Our pipes are born of our blood, sweat, and tears. It was difficult for me at first to set that aside to really be open to the criticism and advice of my peers. Keep in mind that when you post your work on this forum you will get a whole bunch of varying degrees of opinions and advice. You get to pick and choose which to follow and which to disregard to get you to where you want to be. Keep at it. Enthusiasm and determination are helpful in the earlier stages of pipemaking and you seem to have that.

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:52 am

It is extremely difficult to work on something until you think it's done, post it here, and have someone say "Well, really, it's pretty crappy here, here, here, here, and here. But you managed to make it only somewhat crappy here, here and here."

One of the things I had to sort out was the idea that even if a pipe was mine - built by me, designed by me, I could still build it "wrong". And what this means is that given most or all the elements of a pipe's design, some one or two (or ten) parts of it don't really work with the others.

Guys who have built more pipes and done more studying can pick out more of those items, and build their own pipes with fewer of those incongruities or flaws.

Does some of this come down to "stuff we're used to seeing in pipe shaped objects"? Yes. But that's not irrelevant. I've had a number of pipes that I thought were pretty good and just.... didn't sell. Then I talked to better pipe makers, made some changes they suggested, and the pipe sold immediately. So even if it's not about art, it's somehow about what people want to buy, and that, at some point is also important.

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:00 am

Well said guys, well said...again without hearing the tone of my voice, etc. etc. youd never know if I was kidding or being a smartass newb...

Im being sincere...I really enjoy this stuff and as Sas points out, if its not right, it wont sell, and selling is what we ultimately have to do to keep feeding the animal right!?!?!?

Plus we dont really need 150 damn ugly pipes sitting around our house right?!?!

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:08 am

We don't give a shit if you're a smartass newb. We just like criticizing cuz it makes us feel successful.

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:10 am

Sounds like an Uncle of mine..."Look at you stupid...go hold your head!!!"

In that case, I will have to troll and find someone newer than me to abuse for self worth enhancement...

Massis · Post by **Massis** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:40 am

Maybe you can change your name to Mike Messer in the process? Would make your trolling a lot more convincing...

Archer · Post by **Archer** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:14 am

pipemakersforum.com