Trouble seeing it...

[flix]

Any help with issues with this pipe would be appreciated:











I've attempted a hawkbill based on an egg shape, discussed before in another thread. I'm having problems with symmetry...

Thanks in advance for the help!

--flix

[Sasquatch]

Jesus whyn'tcha try a harder shape, man?

I don't know how close you are in terms of airway or chamber and how much wood is around, but in the main, I'd say a couple of things are working against this pipe right now. One, it's REAL hard to do a curved shank and have it look right. To achieve it, all the moons of Jupiter have to tilt just so. I think a slight taper helps and I think the top and bottom part of the curve not being of identical radius helps. (Remember that "which curve is longer" type of brain-teaser? Avoid that, I reckon.).

I think the heel looks heavy, though I know for an egg proper a guy might drop below the shank, but usually that requires the visual balance of a flared shank or stem as well, I'm finding. So - I would take a LOT of material off the bottom if you can and get a graceful swoop - can you carve it so the bowl is sitting "on top" of the shank? Likewise I think a bit can come off the back of the bowl too, and give you a much sharper definition - the shank is long and ... not straight, but "fading" into the bowl is probably not an option for that shank style.

I am a little worried about the stem - I think it looks a little weird because the bottom is just about flat and the top grows into a big bump - almost looks like you bent it "down", and for the curve you already have, I'd suggest it's too much. Dunno if you did bend it or not. Anyway, I sketched some new lines.

Bear in mind that I could be out to lunch on all this stuff. That's a very hard kind of shape. I did a hawkbilled urn sorta thing and it gave me FITS, man, FITS!

[Tyler]

I'll make a comment or two.

First, and most problematic, you have a straight side and a curved side. You need to curve the side stem side of the bowl instead of just a straight slant.

Second, the shank has a bit of a reverse taper. It is thicker at the mouthpiece than near the bowl. If the Castello hawkbill is the standard, the reverse should be true, and much more dramatically.

Lastly, cut in the cheeks of the bowl. Right now the bowl is smeared into the bowl way too far.

[wdteipen]

The biggest problem I see with where you are at is the reverse taper that Tyler pointed out. As I see it, you've removed too much briar on the top part of the shank/bowl transition. The length of the shank is too long for the diameter you have. If it was more stout and tapered toward the stem you might be able to get away with the shank length you have. Since you can't put briar back on, I don't think you can correct it so that it looks right.

[flix]

Jesus whyn'tcha try a harder shape, man?

I don't know how close you are in terms of airway or chamber and how much wood is around, but in the main, I'd say a couple of things are working against this pipe right now. One, it's REAL hard to do a curved shank and have it look right. To achieve it, all the moons of Jupiter have to tilt just so. I think a slight taper helps and I think the top and bottom part of the curve not being of identical radius helps. (Remember that "which curve is longer" type of brain-teaser? Avoid that, I reckon.).

I think the heel looks heavy, though I know for an egg proper a guy might drop below the shank, but usually that requires the visual balance of a flared shank or stem as well, I'm finding. So - I would take a LOT of material off the bottom if you can and get a graceful swoop - can you carve it so the bowl is sitting "on top" of the shank? Likewise I think a bit can come off the back of the bowl too, and give you a much sharper definition - the shank is long and ... not straight, but "fading" into the bowl is probably not an option for that shank style.

I am a little worried about the stem - I think it looks a little weird because the bottom is just about flat and the top grows into a big bump - almost looks like you bent it "down", and for the curve you already have, I'd suggest it's too much. Dunno if you did bend it or not. Anyway, I sketched some new lines.

Bear in mind that I could be out to lunch on all this stuff. That's a very hard kind of shape. I did a hawkbilled urn sorta thing and it gave me FITS, man, FITS!

I see what you mean about the stem. It looks better that way.

OTOH, the front side of the bowl is a "mistake", it's straight because too much was taken off the curve. No way to fix that unless you have a time machine...thanks for the input Sas!

[flix]

I'll make a comment or two.

First, and most problematic, you have a straight side and a curved side. You need to curve the side stem side of the bowl instead of just a straight slant.

Second, the shank has a bit of a reverse taper. It is thicker at the mouthpiece than near the bowl. If the Castello hawkbill is the standard, the reverse should be true, and much more dramatically.

Lastly, cut in the cheeks of the bowl. Right now the bowl is smeared into the bowl way too far.

I see the problem you're talking about re: reverse taper Nothing can be done, too much has been taken off now and I'm getting close to sanding through the back part of the shank.

I will take off more cheek, can't be too much though without making it firewood. I really tried hard to make it a confluence of two shapes, big mistake! I suppose that the whole thing was ruined the moment I took too much off in cutting after drilling. I really wanted to make it as close to a Castello or Radice, with the taper going all the way to the limit of the bowl, but, alas, cut way too much off.

Thanks!

[flix]

The biggest problem I see with where you are at is the reverse taper that Tyler pointed out. As I see it, you've removed too much briar on the top part of the shank/bowl transition. The length of the shank is too long for the diameter you have. If it was more stout and tapered toward the stem you might be able to get away with the shank length you have. Since you can't put briar back on, I don't think you can correct it so that it looks right.

Gee, Wayne, no hope huh?

I'll try to cut off more cheek, but, that would cause it to be a really skinny egg. I suppose that would be better than tossing it. I've spent a lot of time on this project.

Thanks for the input!

[Sasquatch]

You know what? We've all been there. And the only way to get better is to do it again and again. And again.



And maybe even again if you're a slow dumb ape like me.

[Mike Messer]

I see the unusual form, like the reverse taper in the shank-stem as mentioned, and if you wanted a more common shape as pointed out in some of the critique, right, but the unusual form moves toward a more unique, artistic interpretation, your inclination, posibly, and as Sas mentioned, you could work with it.
Look at Abi Natur's pipes. Very unusual, but incredibly good.
Just a thought, but I would say work with it carefully. Then finish it.

[wdteipen]

The biggest problem I see with where you are at is the reverse taper that Tyler pointed out. As I see it, you've removed too much briar on the top part of the shank/bowl transition. The length of the shank is too long for the diameter you have. If it was more stout and tapered toward the stem you might be able to get away with the shank length you have. Since you can't put briar back on, I don't think you can correct it so that it looks right.

Gee, Wayne, no hope huh?

I'll try to cut off more cheek, but, that would cause it to be a really skinny egg. I suppose that would be better than tossing it. I've spent a lot of time on this project.

Thanks for the input!

Prove me wrong. I hope you do and I'll eat crow.

[SWM]

Flix,

I really like this pipe - it is fun to look at and it has something I would call "character".

As far as I am concerned you would only need to refine the bowl/shank transition and the stem and the pipe would be alright by me. This is said regarding only the pipe itself without taking into account any standards you might have had in mind when starting out.

Best,

Steffen

[Abi Natur]

Hey Flix,
some nice shaping you got there and ahead of you,i'll also agree on Steffen's, Wayne's... comments.
It is a beautiful and rather demanding pipe in the making !

Best,
Abi

[flix]

Thanks Abi and Steffan,

I'm tempted to leave it as it is, re: the front of bowl. It is a mistake, but, it does have a certain unique character.

The stem, OTOH, is a real problem now that it's been pointed out to me. I would love to attempt another hawkbill soon, now that I've got some of the difficulties worked out. This is my second attempt, btw, so I do have more than this one in my history. The first one was a real disaster, this one much less so.

I'm really not sure about what is meant by refining the bowl-shank transition, though. Could you be a little more specific? In other words, I'm afraid of making it too thin in that area. A subtle change wouldn't do any harm at all.

Thanks again for the help and encouragement!

--flix

[Tyler]

The stem is actually good...you're just not done. You are going to bend it, right? When you do, that hump will actual make the line of the shank continue just right. The stem is not done, but it's actually in a really good spot.

Don't overplay the unique character angle. That's how we compliment ugly chicks. This pipe, unless the drilling is strange, can still be much improved.

[flix]

The stem is actually good...you're just not done. You are going to bend it, right? When you do, that hump will actual make the line of the shank continue just right. The stem is not done, but it's actually in a really good spot.

Don't overplay the unique character angle. That's how we compliment ugly chicks. This pipe, unless the drilling is strange, can still be much improved.

So my pipe is an ugly chick...

If the stem is bent, it will no longer be parallel with the top of the bowl. Is that less important in this instance?

[Tyler]

The stem is actually good...you're just not done. You are going to bend it, right? When you do, that hump will actual make the line of the shank continue just right. The stem is not done, but it's actually in a really good spot.

Don't overplay the unique character angle. That's how we compliment ugly chicks. This pipe, unless the drilling is strange, can still be much improved.

So my pipe is an ugly chick...

If the stem is bent, it will no longer be parallel with the top of the bowl. Is that less important in this instance?

She's certainly not a hottie...but you're not done! That why we need to find nice things to say about girls, but can be more honest about pipes. We can fix pipes.

Parallel with the bowl is never important. Certainly we want to be aware of extremes, but parallel with the bowl is absolutely never something I personally try to accomplish.

[flix]

The stem is actually good...you're just not done. You are going to bend it, right? When you do, that hump will actual make the line of the shank continue just right. The stem is not done, but it's actually in a really good spot.

Don't overplay the unique character angle. That's how we compliment ugly chicks. This pipe, unless the drilling is strange, can still be much improved.

So my pipe is an ugly chick...

If the stem is bent, it will no longer be parallel with the top of the bowl. Is that less important in this instance?

She's certainly not a hottie...but you're not done! That why we need to find nice things to say about girls, but can be more honest about pipes. We can fix pipes.

Parallel with the bowl is never important. Certainly we want to be aware of extremes, but parallel with the bowl is absolutely never something I personally try to accomplish.

Shocking! Never parallel. Had no idea!

[Tyler]

I don't avoid parallel if that is the right amount of bend to complete the line, I'm saying I never pursue it as some sort of objective.

[flix]

I don't avoid parallel if that is the right amount of bend to complete the line, I'm saying I never pursue it as some sort of objective.

Ok, thanks for clearing your point up for me; I'll seriously consider bending the stem, as per your kind input.

[RadDavis]

Don't overplay the unique character angle.

Agreed. A "unique take" on a shape has to look like it's done on purpose and make sense to the eye and be beautiful. You shouldn't have to explain to people that, "Well, I know it looks sort of screwed up, but I did that on purpose."

I'm really not sure about what is meant by refining the bowl-shank transition, though. Could you be a little more specific? In other words, I'm afraid of making it too thin in that area.

Bring the shank in on the sides where it meets the bowl. You can safely remove quite a bit material on each side of the shank with no worries, and it'll give you a lot more definition.

Rad