problem with finished pipe

[mathias65]

i smoked my volcano pipe for the first time the other day. it smoked great. however, during the coarse of smoking it, the finished surface on the outside of the pipe went all rough on me and i literally had to bust out the 600 grit sandpaper afterwards to eliminate it (and probably the wax surface as well). this is the first of my pipes that i have smoked that i used shellac on. the only thing i can figure is the heat of smoking has some vile effect on the shellac.

my questions are. first, has anyone else had this problem? is there something i did wrong when applying the shellac, or the wax afterwards? am i going to have the same problem with my other pipes that i have used shellac? anything i can, or should, do to avoid this problem in the future?

any help would be appreciated.

[Sasquatch]

The melting temperature of shellac is way higher than your pipe should ever be. So. Is it shellac proper, and not lacquer/urethane/? other finish? Was it mixed fresh? How long did the pipe dry? How much did you put on?

[bregolad]

I've had this problem with several pipes.
both the pipes that did that were small, so the walls heated up pretty good.
but, perhaps more importantly, i used oil based stain under the shellac. thats what i thought the problem was.
don't know if this matches what happened to you

[mathias65]

The shellac used was "Zinsser: Bulls Eye Shellac, clear/transparant". The stain used was "Fiebing's Leather Dye". It was dyed once with mahogany, sanded, dyed again with orange, sanded. Then two coats of shellac not mixed with anything, with sanding between each coat and after the last coat to insure smoothness. As for how much I put on, hmm, I don't know, it was applied with a Q-Tip, just enough to make the surface look wet. With about 1 1/2 hours to dry before any sanding. Then it was waxed with carnuba (sp?) wax, thin coat. Then buffed.

The pipe itself is about 6 1/2 inches long, and the thinnest point of the bowl walls is just shy of 1/4 inch. About 3/16" to be exact. As for drying, I finished this pipe quite awhile ago, so it should have been more than plenty dry. There are actually pictures of it in the Gallery forum.

[NathanA]

I had a similar problem with my first pipe before I found this forum. I read on Pipedia that shellac was sometimes used but it didn't say how or why. What I have gleaned from the fine folks here and have done successfully with my latest pipes is this: The shellac is not for sealing the wood but rather for setting the stain. After the final coat of stain and before the tripoli, you apply a thinned down coat of shellac. I use the same shellac you do but in a 1:1 mixture with denatured alcohol. I brush on a coat, count to ten and then wipe it off with a clean rag. Then I proceed with the buffing, polishing and waxing. I have gotten great results from this. A great shine, no stain coming off on my hands when I smoke them, and especially no bubbled up surface. Hope this helps. I'm sure some more experienced guys could give a better answer.

[LexKY_Pipe]

Shellac must be used sparingly. I would say, though I may be all wet, that high end pipes seldom have any shellac on them at all. Use it only to set the stain. It should never be the final coating of a pipe finish IMHO.

[KurtHuhn]

Gents,

When you apply shellac to a pipe, you are not applying "the finish". You should not lay on a thick coat and let it cure to make a pipe shiny - otherwise you get the problem described above. You want a very, very thin shellac - like water thin, and apply it quickly and wipe it off. Yes, you will be removing some of your top stain, so plan accordingly. You should never leave a "shell" of shellac on the pipe - all kinds of badness can happen if you do.

And by badness, I mean being roasted in the public eye by very vocal and post-prolific Internet denizens that will equate your work to $20 basket pipes the instant the shell finish starts to bubble or wear unevenly.

If you choose to use shellac, I suggest you follow the example of the pros who use it, and only use it as a method for setting stain and prepping the surface for final finishing - not as the finish itself.

[mathias65]

ok, clearly i was mistaken in my impression of the use of shellac. i knew is was used to set the stain, but also thought it was used to achieve the deep, shinny finish. obviously i need to invest in the denatured alcohol to thin it out.

how then is everyone getting that deep finish? specially when using cherry wood? you see i have alot of it to word with and the flat, matte finish will not suffice in my opinion.

[KurtHuhn]

Cherry, at least the Michigan wild cherry that I have used in the past, is very open grained. Hard as nails, but open grained. In those cases the only way to make it shiny is to use a coat of shellac, lacquer, poly, or something else. In my parents' kitchen a coat of poly was used on the cabinets to give them a satin finish.

On a pipe, in my opinion, you would not do this. Several years ago I experimented with getting cherry shiny, and the only way I could was to glop the shellac on. Unfortunately, this resulted in bubbling, cracking, uneven wear, and even burning and discoloration near the rim. Needless to say I left that idea behind. These days, on the rare occasion I make a cherry pipe, I leave it in the as-sanded state since even buffing with tripoli can have an undesirable effect - like loading up the pores with compound and making it look like it has freckels.

The simple fact is that cherry can't be made to look the same as briar (in terms of depth of shine), using techniques used on briar, due to the nature of the wood.

Now, if you're asking about briar, you need to ensure that you sand well, and buff well. Both of which will require patience and practice. Lots of practice. And that's the voice of experience....

[Sasquatch]

Cherry is a completely different situation than briar in terms of moisture penetration and porosity, but I'm still a little surprised that shellac would act so terribly even so... live and learn I guess.

And yeah... shiny cherry only happens if you dip it in plastic. Just a funny wood that way.

[mathias65]

These days, on the rare occasion I make a cherry pipe, I leave it in the as-sanded state since even buffing with tripoli can have an undesirable effect - like loading up the pores with compound and making it look like it has freckels.

as-sanded? no shellac? or wax? not even buffed?

would you by chance have any pictures of how this looks on a michigan cherry pipe? i'd love to see it if possible.