Another new billiard

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:23 am

I took Jeffs advise and left it unfinished, mind you there a few scratches. This pipe has and a large flaw inside the bowl, so I'm going to be smoking it.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:49 pm

Hi Ryan,

(Amazing how it's easier to spot things you would do differently in someone else's work, while it's an order of magnitude more difficult when it's your work. Keep that in mind with the below - I'm no billiard expert, not by a long shot.)

The first thing I noticed was the shank. It seems kinda long, making the pipe seem "lanky", if you know what I mean. It's difficult to tell scale from photos, but it looks like you could shorten the shank by about 1.5cm or so and bring it more in proportion.

I think the stem length is probably about right once the shank is shortened. Hmm. Maybe a hair longer. No, maybe not. Hard to say without a little photoshopping.

I would personally like to see more curve to the outside line of the bowl. Reduce the diameter near the top, leaving the bottom mostly as-is. Try to get the area of maximum bowl diameter down near the top of the shank. Well, "near-ish" anyway.

Tough to tell from the photos, but it looks like you have a bit of the bowl hanging below the line of the bottom of the shank. If this is so, just make sure that the line of the shank is straight and continuous.

And again, tough to tell from the photos, but make sure the taper of the stem doesn't stop before it gets to the shank - and that it doesn't stop right at the shank. Personally, I like the shank to continue tapering right up to the bowl - a mild taper though, nothing too obvious. This would be easy to fix as it stands right now, just some sanding at the stem/shank junction will clean it up real well.

You're doing a great job plugging away at this. If you do modify this one, please post pics - I'm interested to see how it comes out.

And thank you for posting these. Looking with a critical eye towards others work has helped me realize a few things about my own efforts that could use improvement. And so the quest for the billiard goes ever on!

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:48 pm

I modeled it after a Jody billiard but I added more deffinition to bowl/shank joint, the shank tapers from 5/8 at the bown to just a hair over 1/2 at the end of the shank. I think the stem looks to long too, but I was told to copy one of Jodys pipes. hmmm

Alan L · Post by **Alan L** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:19 pm

And here I was gonna say I like it!

I do actually like a longer shank on a billiard, but the stem needs to be either equal in length or a bit longer than the shank. But then does that make a "Crosby" (as in Bing) variant of the billiard shape? The long shank/shorter stem thing seems to me to result in an identity crisis of two classic shapes, the billard and the Canadian.

Keep in mind that you're better than I am already, for what it's worth.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:34 pm

I used this pipe as a guideline for size, but found that it looked like a pot to me, with the bowl being 1.5" in diameter, so I made it 1.25". All the other dimentions are the same Height, length, shank size, and stem length. I still think the shank looks to long.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:55 pm

Yeah, it's a difficult thing - these billiards.

My favorite billiard of all time is probably the Savinelli 101, followed closely by a Stanwell of similar proportions (can't recall the number). These days I tend to base my billiards on these two shapes, with some deviations here and there.

All things being equal, I'd love to hear what other folks think. Because, at the end of the day, I don't get to decide what a proper billiard is.

pipeyeti · Post by **pipeyeti** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:10 pm

I agree about the length of the shank. When I first looked at the pipe my first impression was that the shank was too long. Other than that small issue, wich is my personal preference, I think its a nice looking shape.
The picture of the pipe from jody davis may have the same length shank but since you made the bowl smaller, maybe thats why yours seems to be out of proportion. I'm no expert or pro just giving you my thoughts.

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:12 pm

Ryan,

I'll write a more thorough critique at another time.

I did want to interject and suggest first off that a billiard doesn't necessarily have to have a shank length equal to the bowl height--it just has to be in proportion and look good. Your shank length looks just fine. The stem is a touch long, but it isn't bad. The bowl on yours is very different than Jody's, but as you said his is more of a squat billiard that is flirting with entering the territory of the Pot. The shank/bowl definition looks okay, but could be tighter and better shaped to match the front of the bowl more accurately. Also, with the profile you chose for the bottom of the bowl you need to pinch the top more.

Best,

Jeff

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:14 pm

One further note after I glanced at the photos again.

Be careful with the shank diameter close to the bowl while handling the joint. You probably weren't thinking about it, but you managed to reduce the diameter of your shank around the joint making the pipe have a distinctive pinch. You'll now have to adjust the rest of the shank to taper by hand. Taking more care in one area preserves your hard work in another.

Jeff

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:18 pm

All things being equal, I'd love to hear what other folks think. Because, at the end of the day, I don't get to decide what a proper billiard is.

Rad

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:49 pm

To my unartistic eye, it looks like Rad's example above nailed it as a good example of a billiard.

FredS · Post by **FredS** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:31 pm

I too like Rad's example as the closest thing to a technically perfect, non-stylized billiard. And Ryans pipe could end up very near it if he decides to take that path.

I'm going to shelf my current pipes and work on a billiard(s) over the next few days. We seem to be getting a lot of good input on this shape across the board so now's a good time for us beginners (I’m not classifying Ryan as a beginner) to concentrate our efforts on this shape.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:50 pm

Thanks, I see what you all are pointing out now. I think a major problem for me is, I don't like most factory made billiards. All of them I see look out of proportion to me, either the shank is to small(diameter) or too short in comparison to the bowl, or the bowl being too wide or tall for the shank.

Rad thanks for putting up the pic of the Dunhill, I'll use it as an example. To me the bowl looks to wide for the shank diameter.

This is what I think of as a perfect billiard.

I hope its okay to borrow these.

kkendall · Post by **kkendall** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:38 pm

I showed this to Ryan and he asked I post it here.

I took the golden ratio sketch (my personal theory) I made and extended the shank length to be equal to the entire bowl height (heel to rim). Even at that, the shank on Ryan's pipe is longer than in the sketch and his stem shorter.

Just thought this was interesting:

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:30 pm

Since we're sharing, this is the Savinelli 101:

And this is a Stanwell 190:

(both images from smokingpipes.com)

To me, these pipes embody all that is "billiard".

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:31 pm

Man, this billiard business is getting to me too, now. Just looking at the picture of Rad's posted billiard, I would have sworn that the stem draught hole(blue line) met the shank draught hole(green line) at an angle. Only after I had messed with it on Corel Draw, did it show that they're in a straight line. Talk about an optical illusion.

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:37 pm

KurtHuhn wrote:Since we're sharing, this is the Savinelli 101:

Interesting to note that the underside of the stem on the Savinelli is not parallel to the underside of the shank, but it's still a nice looking pipe.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:42 pm

Something about about that savinelli and stanwell looks "off"...

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:24 pm

Frank wrote: Interesting to note that the underside of the stem on the Savinelli is not parallel to the underside of the shank, but it's still a nice looking pipe.

It is, no doubt, not a "high grade", but it still one of my favorite billiards ever. The good thing is, it's a great starting point for someone to really inject their own creativity into.

kkendall · Post by **kkendall** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:31 pm

Ryan wrote:Something about about that savinelli and stanwell looks "off"...

No spirit? No magic? No soul!