An Admittance

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:11 pm

Alright, I've gotten my 2-jaw chuck back out and have been turning some shapes. I've upped my dosage of coffee to stay awake during the process, but I'm willing to admit that I've come tentatively to the conclusion that perhaps, maybe this method might have the potential not to be complete crap.

I know that this will especially excite Jeff who likes to poke fun at the fact that I truly do most often "freehand" even a straight billiard. I might even post some pics of my little turned pipe later on.

Todd

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:24 pm

I hate the monotony of turning pipes with the 2 jaw. I feel like I'm wasting the briar by not following the grain.

As Jeff, Rad, and yourself have pointed out it is necicary for new makers to do the basics. Building the foudation so to speak.

I'm bored doing classics. I think I did it to myself, I went to fast to soon.

I want to be a pro, so I will follow the instruction of those who have gone before me and paved the road.

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:13 pm

At the risk of sounding like a complete iconoclast - I genuinely enjoy turning the tops of pipes, and well as their shanks. And this isn't just pipes either, I love to turn pens, bowls, vases, platters, and all manner of stuff. Hell, to relax after shaping pipes, I tend to fire up the lathe and make a handful of fountain pens - just for kicks.

I actually find the process fascinating. I guess it's not for everyone.

pipeyeti · Post by **pipeyeti** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:12 pm

I'll be happy when my 2 jaw shows up.

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:48 pm

Ryan wrote:I hate the monotony of turning pipes with the 2 jaw. I feel like I'm wasting the briar by not following the grain.

Unless you really know how to "read" briar, this won't amount to a whole lot. I actually don't think new makers should get to lay hands on decent briar until they've reached a certain skill level. Once you know what you're doing, a live-fire exercise with some first rate wood is great. Before that, however, and generally what happens is that excellent wood gets turned into un-excellent pipes. It's sort of a travesty from where I sit.

As Jeff, Rad, and yourself have pointed out it is necicary for new makers to do the basics. Building the foudation so to speak.

It is, indeed. I don't necessarily think this has to be done with billiards, but they're a great benchmark because it's so well established what they "should" look like. I never did billiards, but I did a lot of simple stuff that was easy to judge against an accepted "standard."

I'm bored doing classics. I think I did it to myself, I went to fast to soon.

I want to be a pro, so I will follow the instruction of those who have gone before me and paved the road.

It's not that classics bore me, quite the opposite. At this point, I find them novel and somewhat perplexing. It's just that I hate turning shapes and then grinding off the square nonsense that's left. It's just not interesting . . . but, then again, neither are stems, and they're required for every pipe.

Todd

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:38 pm

Unless you really know how to "read" briar, this won't amount to a whole lot. I actually don't think new makers should get to lay hands on decent briar until they've reached a certain skill level.

WOW... I'm not really new to making, I know you've been out of the pipe making world for a little while but, I have been doing this for a few years and I have been complimented by other pipe makers (not of your “obvious” caliber, but big names none the less). I also have quite a few high end collectors on my email list, who, if they didn’t think I was something to look at, they wouldn't have subscribed to my list.

Frankly, I’m a bit put off. I’ve never been called untalented without someone actually saying it. That is the feeling I keep getting from you every time you follow up on one of my posts.

In your blog, you said you wanted to help aspiring pipe makers, but it seems like your trying to discourage.

The way you picked apart my entire post...wow.

Ryan

Sasquatch · Post by **Sasquatch** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:18 am

Ahem.

I also just enjoy turning for the pleasure it brings. But I like seeing big fountains of sawdust come out of my Makita framing saw too. (That's what I use for rusticating.)

PS being old-school (poor) I just glue-chuck on a piece of 3/4 inch plywood, using a space age instant glue called "miter bond". Works like a damn.

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:05 am

<EDIT> Sorry, this posted twice for some reason.

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:05 am

Ryan wrote:
Unless you really know how to "read" briar, this won't amount to a whole lot. I actually don't think new makers should get to lay hands on decent briar until they've reached a certain skill level.
WOW... I'm not really new to making, I know you've been out of the pipe making world for a little while but, I have been doing this for a few years and I have been complimented by other pipe makers (not of your “obvious” caliber, but big names none the less). I also have quite a few high end collectors on my email list, who, if they didn’t think I was something to look at, they wouldn't have subscribed to my list.

Frankly, I’m a bit put off. I’ve never been called untalented without someone actually saying it. That is the feeling I keep getting from you every time you follow up on one of my posts.

In your blog, you said you wanted to help aspiring pipe makers, but it seems like your trying to discourage.

The way you picked apart my entire post...wow.

Ryan

Ryan,

Sorry to have put you off. My comments were intended more generally and less specifically to you. I looked at your pipes and I don't think you're "untalented," but your pipes don't betray an exceptional level of skill either. If they did, you wouldn't be having so much trouble with a straight billiard. That's why you're here, right? That's what all the talk about following the advice of more accomplished makers was about, right? If you've got all the collectors you need, great, you're probably wasting your time here, then. From what I've been able to gather, though--admittedly not knowing your work or your history--you may have a slightly inflated opinion of your work. We probably all do, but it's something to think about.

My point was only that makers should learn how to find a shape first, and then work on orienting that shape to "follow the grain" of a particular block. It's a fairly advanced skill, and if you (not you specifically) don't know what you're doing, you end up destroying a great block of wood by turning it into a mediocre or bad pipe. Given a year's training, you might have been able to turn that same block into a beautifully shaped, well-grained piece. That's my reason for suggesting that new makers "practice" with mediocre wood. Not only that, but it will make you a better pipemaker. If you can make beautiful pipes out of average wood, just think what you will be able to do down the road with exceptional wood.

As for "discouraging" anyone, no, that's not my goal, but I don't think it serves anyone to be a cheerleader for work that should never see the light of day. AND AGAIN, I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOUR WORK QUALIFIES AS SUCH. I suppose there are makers out there that are gentler and more diplomatic than I am when it comes to assessing others' work, but none are more passionate about, or dedicated to the idea of training a new crop of talented American carvers. I think if you'll talk to anyone with whom I've had significant interaction, they will confirm that for you. Again, sorry you were offended, Ryan. That wasn't my intention.

Todd

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:58 pm

If anyone's interested in my opinion...

I say, "So what if Todd's an ass? At least he's providing quality feedback on pipes!"

You're welcome, Todd.

I'm a pretty thin-skinned guy so I think I have room to comment here. Over the last two weeks I've seen multiple times where Todd either said something that *I* could clearly see was either a) obviously a joke or b) just speaking his mind and people's reaction to it were a bit bizarre... I had an online conversation with Todd the other day (and it wasn't even about his feedback) and it revolved around receiving feedback and I think he had a great idea: (summed up in my words) "If you want someone's feedback then take it."

That's not directed at you Ryan- you were involved in this one occasion, but the whole thing has been creeping its head lately.

I was at a pipe show with Scott Thile this last weekend and we talked about how great it was to have Todd (and every other Pro on here that does nothing but, what could seemingly be interpreted as, waste their time on here) back, not only making pipes again, but involved in this site and providing feedback. Its been too cold outside for me to make pipes recently so if any of you manage to chase off the people providing the quality feedback before I get a chance to I'm going to lob a block of briar at 'ya!

So..... if you want feedback, then take it!

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:06 pm

BTW- if you think Todd's comments are hard to swallow sometimes, I hear that a review from a drunken Neil (from Smokin' Holsters) is as fun as a barrel of monkeys!!

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:39 pm

bscofield wrote:BTW- if you think Todd's comments are hard to swallow sometimes, I hear that a review from a drunken Neil (from Smokin' Holsters) is as fun as a barrel of monkeys!!

I can attest firsthand to that.

(not sure about the drunk part though)

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:42 pm

bscofield wrote:BTW- if you think Todd's comments are hard to swallow sometimes, I hear that a review from a drunken Neil (from Smokin' Holsters) is as fun as a barrel of monkeys!!

Sounds interesting, Ben. where would I read his reviews?

Tano · Post by **Tano** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:14 pm

Hi Guys,
JMO
We should not forget that in our daily living we rely on five senses. The written word has definite limitations. We can't physically see, touch, smell taste or hear. Those of that rely more on seeing to enhance their communication, will be more apt to missinterpret, and will need further explanations to arrive at a clearer picture. Especially so, if there has been a particular positive or negative experience between the two parties.
Does this make sense!!

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:19 pm

Here's the problem:
The Internet is an absolutely horrible venue for getting to know anybody well.

Because of that, it's difficult to discern subtleties in tone, wording, and inflection in the posts of someone for whom you have no context of the person. By that I mean that, unless you really know someone well, it's difficult to make a joke at their expense and have it go over well. 95% of the time that joke is going to be misunderstood, misconstrued, and imagined to be an insult. It's also incredibly difficult read a post and understand the intent of the author without hearing them speak the same words, and seeing the subtleties of body language. This is why "men of few words" are nearly universally regarded as real assholes on forums, because there's almost never enough context to their posts.

To wit, Rad and Todd's occasional name-calling. I know that both these guys know each other very well, and the likelihood of that being an ACTUAL insult is exceedingly low. However, if someone Todd *didn't* know were to call him a bitch, I daresay the reaction would be miles different. I know how I would react, and it wouldn't be pretty. Then again, I am an Oversized Ostrogoth, and that affords me some liberties with emotional responses to perceived slights.

My only advice to everyone is to PLEASE take the above into account when posting and reading. Also, PLEASE engage the smilies in a most liberal and effusive manner. They help set a mood and tone for your posts, and were developed specifically for this use. In addition, I ask that posters please make every effort to explain your intent, and readers to please disassociate yourself personally from responses to your posts.

Now, before you think that this is some sort of decree coming down from the wise man's cave at the top of the mountain - think again. I am as guilty of this as the next person, despite having been "online" since some time in the mid to late 1980s.

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:48 pm

Kurt, you and Todd are both bitches...

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:10 pm

You soooooooooo knew that was coming....

Frank · Post by **Frank** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:17 pm

bscofield wrote:Kurt, you and Todd are both bitches...

You foul mouthed bugger! Where's your bloody smiley?

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:18 pm

Kurt clearly said that if he knew me well enough I didn't have to use smileys!

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:19 pm

And I have shaken hands with Todd at least twice- qualifying me to call him a bitch with no smiley.

Do I have this all straight Kurt?