Next pipe - am I doing this right?

[Butch_Y]

It's not done yet. I still have some polishing to do and I need to do the bit. It's gonna be long again at 6" with the bend. The extension is asian ebony. I made a mortise face trimmer from an adjustable hole saw and this greatly improved my stem/shank area. It still needs work or a better tool but it's tough to see light through it.

My question is, did I do this shape right? Is there a name for this? It's a mistake the way it came about and I just went with it. In trying to chase out some pits I got this. I know I could have tightened up the radius at the shank/bowl junction but I liked it like this. It seemed to flow well.

Thanks for your comments.

[ckr]

Butch,

Looks fairly close to an acorn shape, I am sure you see the sharp crease on only the one side. IMHO, the sharp bottom doesn't go either.

Nice drilling for that angle.

As for the extension, very nice wood - at this point I can't tell if it will complement or stick out like a sore thumb.

One thing that is becomming apparent to me. I need to carve more and post less. Probably should have overnighted my recent order of briar.

[Butch_Y]

Havent decided on a color yet. I'm thinking a contrast to match what I have on the extension. Ebony buffed out (or perm marker) and then the yellowish on top of that. dunno.

I am sure you see the sharp crease on only the one side.

The lighting on the grain is hiding the sharp crease on the second side.

As for carving, I simply don't sleep. I have a goal of gaining one year's experience in about 4 months. I work 18-20 hours a day in my shop and pound away on various pipes. (lots of times I just stay up all night!!!) I certainly dont have just one stummel going as you can see from some of my gallery shots. I would be bored like that. I try to keep at least 5 going at once. Gives me a chance to set it on the bench and stare at it for a bit while working another.

One thing that is becomming apparent to me. I need to carve more and post less.

Thank you.

[KurtHuhn]

My question is, did I do this shape right? Is there a name for this? It's a mistake the way it came about and I just went with it. In trying to chase out some pits I got this. I know I could have tightened up the radius at the shank/bowl junction but I liked it like this. It seemed to flow well.

I'm going to be brutally honest here.

In my opinion, you need to step back and look at the pipe yourself. Did you shape it right? Hell if I know. Did it come out like you wanted it? Do you think it looks good? Is the end result acceptable in your opinion?

From the photos, I can see that you've tried harder to create a good composition and balance. And I don't want to be too hard on you, because I can tell that you've pretty much become obsessed with this for some reason, but I don't know how successful your attempt is.

I really think you need to start spending less time making, and more time examining. Head to the local pipe shops and look at all the pipes. Examine pipes on the high-end sites like SmokingPipes.com and look at the balance and symmetry in those shapes. Look at the pipes with an artistic eye. Find the facets of the design that you like, and figure out why you like them. Find a pipe that you absolutely must have because it calls out to you, inviting you to hold it and smoke it. Find one that you simply cannot resist stuffing full of tobacco and smoking, then figure out why you like it so much more than all the rest - truly examine the pipe.

Then, figure out how to incorporate the ideas represented in that pipe into your own work - without doing an exact copy. Think of it as a design exercise - like the kind that I had endure in architecture school.

Maybe John Crosby has some thoughts for you here, I am not an art teacher.

If you don't mind me asking:
What is your goal? Why have you become so obsessed with this form of artistry? Why are you trying to rush things so much?

[Butch_Y]

In my opinion, you need to step back and look at the pipe yourself. Did you shape it right? Hell if I know.

You're absolutely right! If it looks good then it's good. I guess what I am after is in trying too hard to mimic copies of other pipes. I got caught up in a few threads where it was mentioned that the crafter had "almost" nailed the shape. But what is "almost" or even perfect for that matter? What defines the perfect shape?

And I don't want to be too hard on you

Nothing you can say that would change at all my determination for the goals I have set here. In fact, you've given me a different lesson for the day and one i wont take lightly.

I really think you need to start spending less time making, and more time examining.

I do spend at least an hour to two every day reading here and studying pipes. I love looking at everyone's work and aspire to be just as good one day. I REALLY!!! need to get to some pipe shows as you suggested. I live not far from Milwaukee but beacause of my bad back have given up driving. I rely on my brother now for transportation. But, I can hugely see the advantage to being able to hold (carress if you will) so many beautiful pipes all in one day.

If you don't mind me asking:
What is your goal?

Not at all.

My goal is to be able to create a perfectly engineered pipe for smoking exactness along with an aesthetically pleasing shape. (mission statement? Hmmm. )

Why have you become so obsessed with this form of artistry?

Reasonings that go beyond who and what I've always been. But certainly to help create a better me.

Too, obsession may be the key word here but also insomnia. My back does not allow me to sleep well and I never did believe in wasting time either. So I work.

Why are you trying to rush things so much?

Time is precious and always too short.

My entire life, or so it seems atm to me, has led me to where I am today. All the training in carving from my grandfather when I was a child to becoming a die grinder/machinist for too many years to being retired due to disability. The rest is a bit personal but pipes are where it ended. OR, should I say began?...

Thanks Kurt.

[KurtHuhn]

In my opinion, you need to step back and look at the pipe yourself. Did you shape it right? Hell if I know.

You're absolutely right! If it looks good then it's good. I guess what I am after is in trying too hard to mimic copies of other pipes. I got caught up in a few threads where it was mentioned that the crafter had "almost" nailed the shape. But what is "almost" or even perfect for that matter? What defines the perfect shape?

Ah, see here is what I was driving at before. "What is the perfect shape?" It's like the question of one hand clapping, or trees falling where nobody can hear. What is the perfect pipe? Does such a thing exist?

The problem is not that any one pipe has the perfect shape, but that a particular pipe has been shaped with balance, symmetry, and an aesthetically pleasing shape. These aren't things that can be easily engineered or quantified by calculations or written descriptions.

There are some shapes that have a known metric - like the straight billiard. It seems like a dead simple shape. You think? Now try to make one. It's a lot harder than it looks. The subtleties are easy to lose sight of, and without those seemingly meaningless details, the pipe just won't look right. Most shapes, however, are open to interpretation - to an extent at least. But again, there's no engineering description, no blueprint, and no mathematical formula that can describe a pipe of a given shape without reducing it to a soulless construct.

If you don't mind me asking:
What is your goal?

Not at all.

My goal is to be able to create a perfectly engineered pipe for smoking exactness along with an aesthetically pleasing shape. (mission statement? Hmmm. )

Why have you become so obsessed with this form of artistry?

Reasonings that go beyond who and what I've always been. But certainly to help create a better me.

Too, obsession may be the key word here but also insomnia. My back does not allow me to sleep well and I never did believe in wasting time either. So I work.

If I was Sean Connery, I would kick your tail for giving me the textbook answer. You business is your own, but I'm puzzled as to how a person that doesn't smoke pipes and has no previous context in the area, suddenly develops such an extreme interest in, of all things, pipes. Why pipes? Which direction do you want to go? What *you* want to become?

Why are you trying to rush things so much?

Time is precious and always too short.

I think that trying to rush the understanding of aesthetics will result in disapointment. The craftswork stuff is easy, making things fit right. What will take time to develop is a sense of design and artistry - that can take years and cannot be rushed. To paraphrase Charlie Papazian, "Relax, don't worry, have a pipe.".

[flix]

Kurt,

Getting a little rough there, aren't you?

BTW, if Kent Rasmussen doesn't want to smoke, and create pipes, why can't Butch?

Seriously, though. I think that a pipemaker should at least smoke some of his early works to see what the public will experience with their product. I know I smoke occasionaly to see what it's all about, even though I've got asthma!

my $.02,

--Michael

[KurtHuhn]

Kurt,

Getting a little rough there, aren't you?

I don't think so. I am truly interested in the motivation.

[Butch_Y]

It's a love affair. :thumb:

Getting a little rough there, aren't you?

I didn't think so. It was very constructive and geared toward me paying more attention to the history of what already exists rather than me trying to re-create the wheel. (that's how I took it) When I was four, I wanted to cross that road so badly, but had to wait. Wait for Mom to teach me to first stop, look both ways and then cross.

It's my nature to push harder than expected. I like the challenge to become a greater challenge or I'll grow bored. I believe in attitude and ability and together they can be powerful in personal growth. I believe too often as humans we tend to procrastinate our dreams rather than fulfill them, but in the end this leads to a very hollow feeling.

For a while now I've felt the depression of not being able to do what I really wanted because my back simply does not allow me the freedom of movement that I grew up with.

Briar has made me happy again.

Edit: I did want to mention also that I have successfully broken in 3 of my pipes now for personal use. The huge pot, the wanna-be rhodie and another you haven't seen yet that is reminicent of a LOTR style churchhill stemmed. I chose a Cherry Cavendish blend that my wife doesn't mind so much and is tasty to me.

[smokepiper]

Tom Eltang once told me - The day i make a pipe and it´s perfect it´s time to lay down in my grave, cause all the meaning of making is over. He has got a point there and as long as there is more to learn or ways to cut a block the meaning of making stays alive. Then for a balance in a pipe there are a golden measurement that Pytagora figured out long time ago and still today the system is used in buildings and most of constructions around us. if you can find the golden lines for a pipe you find the balance and beauty in the eyes of the beholder. A extension of horn or boxwood or other materials with an exeption of bamboo. The material of extension is to be 2/3 of the shank or the other way around if the shank is over 30mm. The rings placed at the end of the shank f.ex. a canadian is 1/3 of the stems saddle to get the harmony in the pipe. When you use bamboo you have to measure the length between the knockles and the same length is from the last knockle to the pipes head and first knockle to the saddle end. Hope i make myself understod, my english could be better. Study these measurements and make drawings and see for yourself were the pipe finds it´s balance.

[Butch_Y]

That's excellent. Thank you.

If anyone else has offhand measurements like that, it sure would be appreciated. I found another post that says the stem on a billiard should be as long as the bowl is high. Maybe I should start a new thread.


Thanks again.

[KurtHuhn]

I think what Ronny is referring to is known in Eglish as "The Golden Ratio". Wikipedia has a page on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

[smokepiper]

I think what Ronny is referring to is known in Eglish as "The Golden Ratio". Wikipedia has a page on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

These measurements is used to find the ultimate length of extention and try this to shape the pipes by this ratio and th eresult will be quite amazing. Nature provides with the most perfect shapes and why not try to copy the mathematics. Thanks Kurth

[bvartist]

These measurements is used to find the ultimate length of extention and try this to shape the pipes by this ratio and th eresult will be quite amazing. Nature provides with the most perfect shapes and why not try to copy the mathematics. Thanks Kurth

A very good point! Nature, and a little knowledge on how the human eye perceives things is a good starting point to learn balance, proportion and symmetry. A tree is roughly 2/3 branches and leaves, and 1/3 trunk. Yet ask someone to draw a tree and most people will draw 2/3 trunk and 1/3 branches and leaves! Groups of items in odd numbers is more appealing than groups of even numbers. Yet a group of 3 items will not be as appealing if they are the same size. One significantly larger, one significantly smaller, and one of average size provides the most appealing to the human eye. As does a contrast of light and dark.

To apply this to pipe making, especially the use of inlays and extensions, one must keep in mind the length of the shank, the overall length of the pipe and the length of the stem. The extension may work on this pipe, IMO, if the stem was shorter, and the stummel was stained a dark color. Right now, the shank of the pipe, the extension, and the length of the stem from the extension to the start of the taper, are roughly the same size. To be balanced, one of these elements needs to be dominant, either in size or in color, or both. One thing I try to remember with inlays and extensions is they are decorative accents, and usually larger is not better, although there are some exceptions to every rule(bamboo).

My thoughts on how to get better balance with this pipe would be to do either: Take off about 5/8 inch from the stem and stain the stummel a dark color.(this may or may not work out, but you'd have to try it to tell!) Or shorten the extension by about 2/3 to 3/4 of its length. Other areas that need attention, the front of the bowl doesn't match the back of the bowl. (very difficult to do! I know! I still struggle with that!) And I think there is a slight taper from the stem to the shank, to me it looks like the stem where it meets the extension is wider than where the shank meets the extension. (if that makes any sense at all!)

BTW, the only way to gain a years worth of experience is to work at it for a year! :thumb: Trying to cram a year's worth into 4 months will still only get you 4 months experience!

Not to be overly judgemental, but I agree with Kurt. This takes time to develop. And really not something that can be rushed. Heck, I've been making pipes for nearly 2 years, yet I'm still working on a lot of the same thing.

And buy some better tobacco! (had to put that in here! but hey, if you like it, its fine with me!)

David

[Butch_Y]

And buy some better tobacco!

Any suggestions for a cigarette smoker that wants to quit? Something with a nice "rich" aroma that my wife wont mind too much. I don't mind bold, just not too bitter. This stuff I have now is really cheap but hey, that's country living. I need to drive at least a half hour to get to a decent shopping area. I'll buy online if needed.

As for the 4 months vs one year. I agree. It's still only 4 months. In that time I hope to waste 100 briar blocks. (most of which are from the burls I bought so i dont really feel like I am wasting precious briar.) I've learned much but so much more is waiting. I really only have just scratched the surface here, if even, it seems sometimes. Still lovin it tho. :thumb:

Thanks for the links and the Golden Ratio. I've heard of it alot but never really wanted to pay attention to it too much. Just seemed like something that at the time I didn't have need for. Good looking out guys.

Next pipe is comin up. Worked all weekend so you guys wouldn't be bored this evening.

Thanks again to everyone. Your help has encouraged me tremendously.

[bvartist]

And buy some better tobacco!

Any suggestions for a cigarette smoker that wants to quit? Something with a nice "rich" aroma that my wife wont mind too much. I don't mind bold, just not too bitter. This stuff I have now is really cheap but hey, that's country living. I need to drive at least a half hour to get to a decent shopping area. I'll buy online if needed.

I quit cigarettes by starting on english blends, but I think your wife would probably throw a fit! For some good, and relatively cheap blends, take a look at http://www.affordablepipes.com Guy uses decent quality tobaccos, his aromatics aren't wet and goopy and the wife probably won't mind most of them! Plus, he's got a reasonably priced build your own sampler. My favorite aromatic from him is Fog Cutter. A burley blend that smells and tastes to me like caramel/brown sugar and nuts. But I don't smoke much in the way of aromatics anymore!

David

[ckr]

Pipe smoking is not a replacement for cigarettes. There is a whole lot of difference between the two

[KurtHuhn]

Edit: I did want to mention also that I have successfully broken in 3 of my pipes now for personal use. The huge pot, the wanna-be rhodie and another you haven't seen yet that is reminicent of a LOTR style churchhill stemmed. I chose a Cherry Cavendish blend that my wife doesn't mind so much and is tasty to me.

Ping me with your physical address and I'll send you a whole stack of tobacco to try. Everything from English blends down to the moistest. most goopy, aromatics. You might be surprised at what you find most delactable - even if it does make the wife barf.

My favorite blends make Karin run for the hills....

[Butch_Y]

Ping me with your physical address

Done. And Thank you.

Pipe smoking is not a replacement for cigarettes. There is a whole lot of difference between the two

I agree. Totally. Pipe smoking is an art. Cigarettes suck. They can kill you too. Which is why I want to get rid of them. Since sticking the first pot I made between my teeth, I haven't wanted to put it down. I love the way the bit feels in my teeth. And it helps me not want to smoke cigarettes too, which is a plus.

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions.

[bvartist]

Pipe smoking is not a replacement for cigarettes. There is a whole lot of difference between the two

I guess I don't follow your thinking on that. Pipe smoking is healthier, actually is shown to have some health benefits, tastes a lot better than sucking down bland smoke, and enough nicotine is absorbed through the tissues of the mouth to ward off the cravings for cigs. That sounds like a good replacement if you ask me! Kind of like replacing eating a quart of ice cream every day with exercise.

David