logo and stamp question

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:03 pm

What would you guys think of this as a logo (sorry about the white space):

Also, those of you who have logos or intriquit stamps, how do you think that this would work as far as "ease of use" goes (like any stamp has ease of use)?

Thanks...

Ben

achduliebe · Post by **achduliebe** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:11 pm

Ben,

Nice design, simple yet elegant. I think it is very classy.

munkey · Post by **munkey** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:41 pm

To me it looks like the B tripped and is falling over backwards

Maybe curve all of "BScofield" or "B.Scofield" (in a half circle or so) over centered "PIPES"?

Just a suggestion. I like the font.

jeff · Post by **jeff** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:24 pm

Cool font, but I agree with the comment about the B. I would curve "B. Scofield over a straight "pipes" below. One thing to keep in mind is that, to my knowledge at least, it is not possible to vary font thickness with A & M stamps because they all need to be very sharp. So, you will lose the thickness of the first few letters. Just a thought.

Jeff

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:16 am

Don't you guys get it?

The B is a pipe, and the S is smoke coming out of it.

I don't know why I have to splain this stuff.

Rad

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:16 am

I agree, the tilting B is unsettling and gives the idea that something is not stable or otherwise stumbling. I also do not care for how the B and S are separate and also most prominent letters. At first glance viewers might see an unfortunate abreviation that you may not find flattering.

You might want to consider finding a way to somehow combine the B and S into one unit (overlaping or some such) and have that symbol lead into the rest of the name. I think you may be wanting that to read as a pipe with smoke drifting up from it but right now it reads more as a stumbling B.

I like the font. It has a jazzy yet solid feel to it. I also like the juxtaposition of the words Scofield and Pipes. The B just seems like a third wheel at this point. You might just eliminate it all together or somehow find a way to make it more a part of the overall logo.

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:19 am

Ha! Rad and I posted at the same time and saw the smoking B.

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:34 am

Hmm... what if the B were tilted more?

Yes the B is a "pipe" and the S is smoke coming out of it. I wasn't sure if the first posters realized it and just didn't mention it.

Obviously the B was the main question regarding the design... Perhaps back to the drawing board. BS is certainly not what I want my pipes abbreviated as

Let's see...

What if i swapped the B for a some sort of an outline of a pipe that didn't represent a B?

I think I'll try that for a bit and see what I come up with...

alexanderfrese · Post by **alexanderfrese** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:21 pm

RadDavis wrote:Don't you guys get it?

The B is a pipe, and the S is smoke coming out of it.

I don't know why I have to splain this stuff.

Rad

That's exactly what it's all about. If you have to explain a design, it won't work. I am very very very careful when disturbing our common sense of percepting letters intended to be read forming some sort of image at the same time. To my experience it works only in some 0.000something percent of the times tried, even if done by some real typo artists. Everytime I tried, it failed in some considerable ugly looking way. And I came to graphic design from a typesetter's background. I managed to sell some of those logotypes, though. I feel deeply ashamed everytime I come across those today.
The S forms that image of a trail of smoke. But, hey, the B is no pipe. Put together it might build the desired image in the viewer's mind. But the rest of us all (and that would make the 99.99something) see some B falling off the edge, which makes a very undesirable connotation.
My 2 euro-cents: If you tend to stay with that typeface, you will have to keep in mind that it makes a very clear 1920s statement. If that intention won't arise any irritation in the perception of your business anywhere else – go for it. But I advise my customers in graphic design to think twice about those clear graphic statements made only for aesthetic purpose. If you plan to do a night club flavoured with some style of that decade, a typo like that almost is a must. If not, try to think from your client's point of view. The one that did not get to know you and your business yet. Will he "feel" the right mood when seeing that logotype? I would not clearly say yes or no, but as I said: Think about it at least one more time.
Some more: Stamping a pipe "XYZ pipes" is somewhat like calling a car a "2005 Chrysler Crossfire automobile". Jeeze, it has four wheels and looks like a car, so why call it an automobile? Got me? I would advise a bit more self-confidence. A maker should not stamp a pipe a pipe. he should sign it with his name like some piece of art. Your business letter head or your shop sign might have the "pipes" addition, but it is not needed on the pipe itself. If we follow that thought a bit further, a pipe stamp showing a visualisation of a pipe (even in an abstract way) somehow shows the same flaw.
Some more technical issue: I wonder if some pipe stamp maker will be able to guarantee that some narrow spaces (i.e. between the horizontal middle and the base line of the "E") will be crisp, or if those two elements will punch back the wood between them, too. The typeface has some weight, and the space between those lines is about same width as the line width of the letter, so it might make some trouble.

I have to pick up my daughter, but will come back with some suggestions soon.

alexanderfrese · Post by **alexanderfrese** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:41 pm

So, here we go:

Simply the name. Very much understatement. Even underlines the elegant feeling of the typeface. Note: If you use "faux capitals", you have to balance the lineweight of the "bigger" capital not to let it look bold. Otherwise the image of it all being one word is distuirbed. Issue: The S and the c form some "k"-like shape. No "pipes".

Somewhat lessens the disturbing look of the "k"-shape. A bit more balanced, but not that outstanding like the first one. But all in all, the feel of it from the typeface used is already outstanding as a pipe stamp, so one should not overload it.

My favourite for the pipe stamp. Classic by centered symmetrical proportion to match the classic feel of the typo. Not boring like most center balanced typos, since the types themselves (F, E and P) are extremely unsymmetrical. The extra "S" is the smoke trail. It doesn't have to bend between two purposes, since the underline makes the complete name. If someone does not see the smoke, he will still see the Initial. Both perceptions are fine. Let someone see a wave, someone see a tree, someone see an organic shape. It still should be fine, since all visions are sort of positive. No misleading or irritating interpretation possible.
Note: Here, the line weight does not necessarily have to balanced, since the "smoke" S is a shape of it's own. In a thinner weight, it would look a bit weak on topo of the name. Stamp use: Vertical axis parallel to the length axis of the stem (R. Barbi does it that way, just to get the right idea, it's easy to mix up three dimensions not looking at a drawing, reading a post from a guy speaking German…)

To be used as the "whole" logotype (letterhead, sign, whatever).

After all, it is no logotype that cries out some revolutionary bling-bling design spiced with some up-to-date-trendy effect. That would hardly ever match the perception of the pipe making business. In fact, it is simple. Those simple things can be boring. But if they do work, they will last. You won't want to change them after a few months.

I did not do any fine tuning on those letters but the weight balancing. There would be some work to be done even on that come-on-my-little-baby-daughter-could-have-made-that thing. I just wanted to visualize my intentions from the posting I made before.

alexanderfrese · Post by **alexanderfrese** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:51 pm

Sometimes just a second of looking back brings up the final thought:

If you want to make a statement, and don't want to bla bla on your pipes – this is it. It is a clear shape building the vision of smoke and it is your initial. No further reduction possible. Scofield pipes brought to the pinpoint. Just add a grading number or a year (if at all) and there you are. Simply yours. To be known worldwide.
Logo design sometimes is like shaping a pipe: Chop off everything that is not necessary.

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:44 pm

alexanderfrese wrote:Sometimes just a second of looking back brings up the final thought:

If you want to make a statement, and don't want to bla bla on your pipes – this is it. It is a clear shape building the vision of smoke and it is your initial. No further reduction possible. Scofield pipes brought to the pinpoint. Just add a grading number or a year (if at all) and there you are. Simply yours. To be known worldwide.
Logo design sometimes is like shaping a pipe: Chop off everything that is not necessary.

I agree... I really like that last one with the S on top of the Scofield... I'm going to have to re-think this. Since I wanted a sub-title or slogan to be "simple elegance" that may be the way to go :thumb:

Thanks everyone for your help! Thank you Alex for the additional visual help

flix · Post by **flix** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:55 pm

My $.02:
A stylized SP, for Scofield Pipes.

It would be nice if you could keep it elegant and "classy". I'm not sure a cute logo, like Brebbia's little man, would be suitable, IMO. You're on the right track though with the stylized "S", I like it, but it may not be quite enough. I'm sure other makers have/had an "S" as logo. No?

magruder · Post by **magruder** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:15 am

I like it.:thumb:
I saw the smoking pipe right off.

Use the B and the S only as a logo.
Put your full name (if you must) or just Scofield in another font in smaller type
in a straight or pair of straight lines.
Make the BS logo 3/16" size.
All other letters/numbers much smaller.
Cool logo.
Best to all,
Steve

Nick · Post by **Nick** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:26 pm

I'd just go for BS pipes. I mean that has a really nice ring to it don't you think?

"Hey Bill, what's that in your mouth?"

"Why thisere's my new BS. Whaduya think?"

"Thathere's the biggest BS I've ever seen!"

"Yep, and my new BS was very reasonably priced too."

"Yep, and that BS sure looks great in your mouth too! I love the craggy texture it has."

"I gotta get me a few more BS pipes."

And your motto could be: BS Pipes. There ain't nothing like BS

alexanderfrese · Post by **alexanderfrese** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:40 am

If you really want to go back as far as to think about the name – I would strongly recommend not to use abbreviations. Names are always recepted more "personal" more "individual" by most of us. I believe, the maker's name will always support the image of his pipe making business as some sort of "work of art". Pipe smokers are individuals – at least they want to be seen as such. And they like to have some pieces of that art from that artist…
You don’t want to tell your collegues aboout that new "PP" on your wall. You have got yourself a previously unknown Picasso.
See what I mean?

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:29 pm

Alex, I really appreciate the help with advice about abreviations. it makes sense to me...

Nick, however, was making reference to a phrase with which i, unfortunately, share an abreviation:

bs=bull shit

flix · Post by **flix** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:32 pm

So, Ben, that takes you full circle, with Alex. I'm kind of in the same boat: what to do?

Do you have a fictitious business name in mind, something short that could fit on the side of a pipe shank? Just a thought...

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:47 pm

I think I'm leaning towards the one with "Scofield" and the S (smoke) over the that. I'm not sure what I think about not inlcuding the word pipes, I just think it looks the best.

ben

alexanderfrese · Post by **alexanderfrese** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:48 am

bscofield wrote:I think I'm leaning towards the one with "Scofield" and the S (smoke) over the that. I'm not sure what I think about not inlcuding the word pipes, I just think it looks the best.

ben

Remember, you might make the S + Scofield + Pipes your business logo on letterhead, shop sign, pipe sleeves or boxes, on every car of your delivery car fleet, intl. TV commercials, seed it into the green of the next olympic games opening ceremony stadium, to paint it to the moon, whenever you want (or need) to communicating style and focus of our business. Even some very reduced, elegant color scheme might be added for printed matter, to keep it on the ground…
And use the S + Scofield on your pipes. The one seeing this has that focus of your business in his very own hand, so the "Pipes" would not be needed. And – to my feeling – the missing "Pipes" would not lessen the formal, visual recognizabilty (sorry, I don't work that intl. in my business – graphic design – to have all the terms) of your logo design. It would make a very light, sophisticated, distinguished impression. You don't shout with that. But making oneself heard in an almost whispered voice shows, that you got em…