Bent Egg

[Alden]

I took a week or two off to mediate on what I'm missing here.
I just cant make a pipe to a level I'm completely happy with, and this depresses the hell out of me.
Aside from not being able to finish a pipe as well as I want, I spend hours and hours to finish just decent pipes. It takes me 30+ hours to complete a pipe. I'm pretty much full time at this and havent been able to finish much more than 1 a week. Even if I could sell them for decent money, thats still tough to keep the lights on.
I suppose I am asking way too much this soon into my journey.
But enough with whining.
I must have figured something out because these are my best pipes yet. I started 5 pipes, finished 3 of them. It took me 2 1/2 weeks though
This is personally my favorite, I really want to keep it but luckily I'm extremely broke.
No matter what I do, I cant get a tight stem/shank junction, and I tried for hours to line it up by hand. I'm selling it basically as a second for that reason, I think I will ask $160 for it.
Thoughts ? Criticism ? Buyers ?

[RadDavis]

Ryan, how are you facing the shank end?

Rad

[Alden]

Ryan, how are you facing the shank end?

Rad

I'm pretty sure the problem is the tenon. I used delrin tenons for the first time on the 3 pipes I started that week, and for the first time I had issues with the stem/shank not sitting straight.
I love the feel of a delrin tenon, but if I dont figure out real quick where the problem is its back to integral tenons for me.
I think my drill bit is a bit too wide for seating the delrin into the stem, and it gives it just enough play to get cockeyed when I epoxy it in.

[baweaverpipes]

Ryan, how are you facing the shank end?

Rad

Ditto! Not to put words in Rod's mouth (yuck), but always, ALWAYS, sand, buff and wax with the stem in the mortise. That way you never get rounding at the mortise stem junction. Also, when polishing the stem, use a dowel. That way you don't round that area. This needs to be flush.
Always remember to clean the button area so it doesn't look like there's spittle in there.
Bruce (the guy Sasquatch doesn't like)

[RadDavis]

Ryan, how are you facing the shank end?

Rad

Ditto! Not to put words in Rod's mouth (yuck), but always, ALWAYS, sand, buff and wax with the stem in the mortise. That way you never get rounding at the mortise stem junction. Also, when polishing the stem, use a dowel. That way you don't round that area. This needs to be flush.
Always remember to clean the button area so it doesn't look like there's spittle in there.
Bruce (the guy Sasquatch doesn't like)

As usual, Bruce is addressing a totally different problem.

Rad

[Sasquatch]

Bruce... I'm with Scottie now. You need to move on.

Ryan,
IF.... if you are gluing in a delrin tenon, might I suggest that you do so very carefully, and insert it into the stummel uponsodoing (made that word up), and that little bit of play will work for you rather than against you. It would, as it were, force the stem/tenon into the proper position, and allow it to harden there.


BUT.... you didn't answer Rad's question - how are you facing the shank and cutting the mortise, and how are you facing the shoulder before drilling the stem?

[Alden]

Ryan,
IF.... if you are gluing in a delrin tenon, might I suggest that you do so very carefully, and insert it into the stummel uponsodoing (made that word up), and that little bit of play will work for you rather than against you. It would, as it were, force the stem/tenon into the proper position, and allow it to harden there.


BUT.... you didn't answer Rad's question - how are you facing the shank and cutting the mortise, and how are you facing the shoulder before drilling the stem?

Aha, I see what you are getting at. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong then. I am epoxyizing (made that word up) when I should be glueficating ?
Firstso, I chuck up my ebonite. I face with a left hand cutting bit pointed slightly towards the chuck, and move the carriage out from the center of the rod to face it flat. (I face my shank the same way).
I drill with a jacobs chuck in the tailstock, maybe 3/4" deep and cut some grooves around the delrin (groovifiying it in several places). Then I epoxyize the delrin and shove it in the hole with the tailstock ramifying it deep into the ebonite. Uponsodoing, I leave it set for 15-20 minutes then drill out the whole shebang as prescribed by law.

[Alden]

Also, when polishing the stem, use a dowel.

Do you mean polishing as in the buffing wheel ? I try to do everything with the pipe together except shaping on the bowl itself if the stem gets in the way of the wheel.
When should I use a dowel in the stem ?

[d.huber]

I'm gonna jump out on a limb here, but it looks like the junction gap is pretty much the same from every angle. Have you tried shortening your tenon?

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

[wmolaw]

I'm gonna jump out on a limb here, but it looks like the junction gap is pretty much the same from every angle. Have you tried shortening your tenon?

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

Right now, my own pipemaking has hit a wall because I just can't really seem to make stems work. I'm in the process of considering my own shortcomings, and then will try some hand made stems so as to get myself back on track. I see such beautiful pipes and many of them are beautiful because of the marriage between the stem, the shank, and the stummel which you really can't get if you are using pre-formed stems. Tough place to be.

And I think your pipes are beautifully shaped, really gorgeous. I don't have the sort of knowledge of the others, can only speak from my very limited experience. As noted, the length of the tenon and maybe a bit more countersink. Can we see a pic of the actual facing of the shank/stem juncture and the stem?

Still, though, if I wasn't buying a ton of pipe tobacco right now (the Feds are definitely going to increase the excise tax on pipe tobacco in the next six month and will succeed in taxing net purchases, so stocking up like crazy!), I would snap one up!

[Sasquatch]

What you are doing theoretically should work, Ryan. If it's not, I agree with Huber - check your tenon depth first, check that there's no physical barrier on the tenon, near the shoulder, all that stuff - make sure it's in all the way.

The only other thing I can think of is that your machining isn't running at 90 degrees somehow - that cutting from inside to outside you are somehow losing a little material that you want to keep, and that is preventing a good hard edge at the outside where they are supposed to meet.

[The Smoking Yeti]

As Sas said, (I think...) there is a possibility your carriage has some play, which isn't allowing you to cut a true 90 degree angle. If that IS the issue, I suppose a simple solution would be to square up the stem face with a forstner bit instead.

[Growley]

I was thinking the same thing Uber was. And since I haven't used Delrin, I can't help. However, to offer some encouragement, I really like this pipe The shaping is really pretty.

Keep at it!

[e Markle]

I took a week or two off to mediate on what I'm missing here.
I just cant make a pipe to a level I'm completely happy with, and this depresses the hell out of me.
Aside from not being able to finish a pipe as well as I want, I spend hours and hours to finish just decent pipes. It takes me 30+ hours to complete a pipe. I'm pretty much full time at this and havent been able to finish much more than 1 a week.

Hey Ryan,
Don't let it get you down. My first 20+ pipes took me 20+ hours each. I think that's just the way it is. One way you can get faster is to make the same shape over and over. You'll develop a process and come to know what to expect at each step. If you did that with something fairly basic but still interesting (1/4 bent rhodesian?) you might find you progress more quickly. Once you get that shape down cold, it's really easy to make variants off of it which bring you to another shape that's fairly closely related (acorn, bulldog, brandy, etc.).

It seems like you jump around quite a bit, and that just means you're encountering brand new problems with each pipe you make. This simply adds time.

[sethile]

Aside from your shank fit, that's a really nice pipe!

A lot of folks have experienced problems with delrin like this. Tyler had a similar issue at one point. Not sure how he resolved it, or if he just went back to integral tenons, but search for that thread if you get a chance. The bottom line is if your integral tenons work great but your Delrin tenons don't, then it's not your facing technique or your lathe alignment.

When using Delrin I drill and face the stem and I prep and drill the Delrin 1/8" hole through it. Otherwise it's going to be really rough to get the Delrin seated well in the stem due to hydraulic force working against you. Then when I glue the delrin into the stem I use the 1/8" drill in the tailstock to make sure the Delrin is aligned perfectly square (Bob Gilbert suggested doing that some time back). If you try lining the Delrin up using the stummel I'd be very worried about gluing the tenon into the stummel and the stem at the same time! After the epoxy sets I finish fitting the tenon to the stummel for length, etc.., then drill it out to 5/32 and clean it up a bit.

A lot of time I prefer to go with integral tenons, especially when I want to have a close steep saddle. It's possible to get a nice feel with the fit, but it takes some work.

[Alden]

It seems like you jump around quite a bit, and that just means you're encountering brand new problems with each pipe you make. This simply adds time.

Yes thats a fact !

[RadDavis]

Ryan, Delrin is for pussies.

Hope this helps.

Rad

[Alden]

When using Delrin I drill and face the stem and I prep and drill the Delrin 1/8" hole through it. Otherwise it's going to be really rough to get the Delrin seated well in the stem due to hydraulic force working against you. Then when I glue the delrin into the stem I use the 1/8" drill in the tailstock to make sure the Delrin is aligned perfectly square (Bob Gilbert suggested doing that some time back). If you try lining the Delrin up using the stummel I'd be very worried about gluing the tenon into the stummel and the stem at the same time! After the epoxy sets I finish fitting the tenon to the stummel for length, etc.., then drill it out to 5/32 and clean it up a bit.

A lot of time I prefer to go with integral tenons, especially when I want to have a close steep saddle. It's possible to get a nice feel with the fit, but it takes some work.

Thanks for the tips Scott.
Rad, helpful as always