Advice before finishing???

[JMG]

Ok...Patience, unfortunately, is not a strong suit of mine. I really won't to get past making sub-par or barely mediocre pipes.This particular time I started out with plans to make another billiard, that turned into a brandy'ish, and finally it ended up being somewhat of an egg...maybe? Anywho, I guess the shape is ok, not my favorite, but ok. What is really causing me frustration and becoming the bane of my existence ( ) is the stupid stem shank junction. I used a premolded stem, and have heavily modified it. I was having trouble getting it flush, so I decided to use a method that FredS had posted on another forum I'm on. I basically chucked the tenon in my drill press and used it like a vertical lathe. As you will see, I think I made it worse.

Can you guys give me some direction as to how to face the stem properly w/o a lathe? Also, I thought about finishing this pipe w/o any stain simply because I liked the look of it. I buffed it tonight to see what it would look like. Do you guys think I should stain this one? Here are some pictures...sorry there are so many, but wanted you guys to have a good look at it. Feel free to be as harsh with the critiques as you need to be...I want to learn. Thanks.

[Sasquatch]

Okay, lets deal with this joint. You have faced the shank, I assume, somewhere along your drilling journey? I'm going to assume the shank is okay and the stem is out of whack.

What needs to happen is a guy has to figure out which parts are touching each other and preventing the whole thing from coming together nicely. This is gonna sound goofy, but take a piece of sandpaper, say 220, blast a tenon-sized hole in it, and put it over the end of the tenon, facing the shoulder of the stem. Put the pipe together and twist it 10 times - spin the stem against the sandpaper. This will knock down the high spots on the shoulder. Repeat as needed. You are using the pipe as a sanding block.

The basic proportions of your pipe are real nice - I'd like to see a thinner area for my teeth and inch from the button, but that's just me. It's maybe just a hair "round" for a proper billiard - just a little appley, but it's a nice looking pipe.

[JMG]

Okay, lets deal with this joint. You have faced the shank, I assume, somewhere along your drilling journey? I'm going to assume the shank is okay and the stem is out of whack.

What needs to happen is a guy has to figure out which parts are touching each other and preventing the whole thing from coming together nicely. This is gonna sound goofy, but take a piece of sandpaper, say 220, blast a tenon-sized hole in it, and put it over the end of the tenon, facing the shoulder of the stem. Put the pipe together and twist it 10 times - spin the stem against the sandpaper. This will knock down the high spots on the shoulder. Repeat as needed. You are using the pipe as a sanding block.

The basic proportions of your pipe are real nice - I'd like to see a thinner area for my teeth and inch from the button, but that's just me. It's maybe just a hair "round" for a proper billiard - just a little appley, but it's a nice looking pipe.

Yeah, it is too round to be a billiard. It morphed into whatever it ended up as along the way. About the stem/shank junction...I think my problem is that the bottom of the tenon (part closest to the face) protrudes out quite a bit, or tapers out, or...whatever. I can't seem to find a good way to get the tenon one width all the down. Does this make any sense at all? Couple other questions...What about staining? I'm torn out whether to stain this pipe or not. Also, do you think this pipe would look better if I thinned out the shank and made the bowl "egg'ness" more defined? Personally, I'm fond of the chubby look.

Don't hold back on me Sas b/c I'm new here. The kids here tell tales of your reviews, and I really want to learn.

[wdteipen]

If I'm understanding you correctly, John, it sounds like you're not countersinking your mortise to accomodate the base of the tenon. Here's a picture of what I'm talking about:

[JMG]

If I'm understanding you correctly, John, it sounds like you're not countersinking your mortise to accomodate the base of the tenon. Here's a picture of what I'm talking about:]

I have it countersinked. It's just that these premolded stems I have taper out a great deal. I can't countersink it anymore than I already have it. I just need to figure out a way to remove some of the taper off of the tenon.

[Nate]

If I'm understanding you correctly, John, it sounds like you're not countersinking your mortise to accomodate the base of the tenon. Here's a picture of what I'm talking about:]

I have it countersinked. It's just that these premolded stems I have taper out a great deal. I can't countersink it anymore than I already have it. I just need to figure out a way to remove some of the taper off of the tenon.

John, is the gap equidistant all the way around the face? You may just simply have too long of a tenon. If only it were that easy right?!

[Sasquatch]

For the tenon, have you thought about this kind of jig?

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=5210

This device is made by drilling a hole in a piece of wood and cutting it in half. Very easy.


As for a "harder" criticism, I don't have a lot to say. I think the shank is probably just a bit fat in general against a fairly tall thin looking bowl, and the linese could be straighter - this has a "handmade" feel to it, which can be cool, but if you are aiming at a "hard edged" factory-looking pipe, then things need to be tightened up - the shank widens out just a hair at the bowl, for instance. But that kind of thing just comes with time too. It's far more important that you get a method for building these things correctly at this stage than that you nail every line and angle - no one is going to care if you make the nicest billiard bowl ever, if the shank/stem junction isn't good too.

Look at the Delrin tenons threads - I suspect that would solve a lot of your woes.

[JMG]

Crap, Sas...you don't have to be so mean about it, you jackass! Joking, joking. Thanks for the critiques man, I really appreciate it. As much as I'd love to buy some really nice handmade pipes along the way, I'm doubting that I'll be able to afford too many. So....I'd love to be able to make my own. I want to be able to look and have a nice pipe rack full of mostly my own pipes and I'd like to be able to give some really nice ones as gifts.

Nate...yeah right, I wish it were that simple, ha! I actually checked for that last night...no luck.

Thanks for the help guys.

[JMG]

Ok, here is a really bad photoshop job of what I think my pipe could look like with some proper modifications. I'd have to thin the shank (evenly,) level off the top of the bowl, and define the bowl's "eggness" a little more. So, what do you guys think....should I go for this?

[caskwith]

What have you got to lose, give it a go, if it turned out like that it would be a seriously nice billiard!

[KurtHuhn]

Personally, I don't think you should change it that much. For me, the pipe is sufficiently "billiardy" if know what I mean. There are small tweaks here and there that could be done, but I don't think you need to change it as much as your photoshop job.

What I suggest:
- Level off the top of the bowl perpendicular to the drilling angle.
- Tweak the curve of the bowl from side to side to match the lines on the front and back of the bowl.
- Get the stem fitment flush, performing whatever small jigging needs done there.

I do not think you need to thin the shank or reduce the taper of the shank - I actually like that aspect of this pipe. In the photoshop job you'll notice that the shank/stem joint looks like it has a broken back. That's not something to aim for. I know you didn't intend it that way, but that's the trap you could fall into if you try to reshape the shank in that fashion.

Personally, I like this pipe. Yes it needs tweaks here and there, but overall this is a good start and a great foundation to build on.

[RadDavis]

The only thing that pipe really needs is for the stem and shank to fit flush. I think it's a fine looking pipe the way it is.

Take all the advice and try to make the next one better.

Rad

[baweaverpipes]

I'm terribly sorry JMG, but do NOT change it the way you did with the photoshop.

[wdteipen]

I agree. I like what you have better than the photoshop version.

[JMG]

Well, 86'in the Photoshop concept. I'm just going to try and correct the stem/shank junction, level off the top of the bowl, and give it a good wax and buff and leave it be. Thanks guys.

[Sasquatch]

I think you should make it into a rusticated Oom Paul.

[JMG]

I think you should make it into a rusticated Oom Paul.

Done!

[Nate]

I think you should make it into a rusticated Oom Paul.

Done!

Man, you'll have to teach me how to bend briar.

[JMG]

I think you should make it into a rusticated Oom Paul.

Done!

Man, you'll have to teach me how to bend briar.

I know voodoo.

[bandkbrooks]

What needs to happen is a guy has to figure out which parts are touching each other and preventing the whole thing from coming together nicely. This is gonna sound goofy, but take a piece of sandpaper, say 220, blast a tenon-sized hole in it, and put it over the end of the tenon, facing the shoulder of the stem. Put the pipe together and twist it 10 times - spin the stem against the sandpaper. This will knock down the high spots on the shoulder. Repeat as needed. You are using the pipe as a sanding block.

I love the Egg shape of the bowl. I wouldn't change it either except for the angle of the top of the bowl.