Machined pipes.New Factory in Nashville.

[notow1]

"You mentioned I've reviewed a pipe of yours, and I apologize for not remembering. (I lose track switching back and forth between real names and usernames.). I mention that first because I am in no way making this comment about your pipe(s). I don't remember that review."
Tyler I was the handsome Guy with about six pipes and You couldn't believe how wonderful they were, at Chicago last year. I'm pretty sure I stopped using an alias by then, Norm.

[LatakiaLover]

...I was the handsome Guy with about six pipes and You couldn't believe how wonderful they were...

Hmmmmmm...

[andrew]

I think retailer exposure is a much healthier for the carver and buyer in the long run. It also has a number of built in safeguards that are not present with a social-media-only approach (the turd breeding ground if you will). One reason that Nate can use social media effectively is that he already has an established presence through a variety of outlets. The social media is icing on the cake, not the cake. The man has verifiable skills and his resume is infinitely more than a hundred likes on whatever.

Social media can be ok. It's another tool in the box. In my opinion it's a bad place for a carver to start, not a bad place to end.

[The Smoking Yeti]

Social media can be ok. It's another tool in the box. In my opinion it's a bad place for a carver to start, not a bad place to end.

KRAAAAAKOW!

[andrew]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here... I don't know what krakow means. I'm gonna look through my 9 year olds pokemon books and see if I can find the word. Well, it's either a yeti word, or just another pop culture reference that I don't get. Sad.

Most of the time I hate news. Most of it's sad, like the potential pool of presidential candidates that we have so far. But it does have it's place. It's just more beneficial to all when someone with credibility is behind the pen... or shaping wheel.

[Tyler]

Anyway, I suppose my point is simply, I don't really use social media and I'm really happy with where I'm at and where I'm heading as a pipemaker. And if a new maker isn't into social media, I personally don't see how that will hold them back in any way.

Social media has certainly helped me broaden my audience. However, the visibility I gain from retailers is far and away greater than my own personal efforts. Use both if you can, but never underestimate retail visibility.

Again, intention come to bear in this conversation. If you want to make a living at this it's different than if you want to be a hobbyist.

A full-timer has to move a lot of pipes, 100+/year is not uncommon. That many sales takes a lot of hours and a pretty decent sized pool of buyers to move. Social media will only take you so far. Retailers are important in this equation.

For a part-timer, say 30 or less a year, social media works great. It's fast, easy, and free.

A retailer brings more exposure, and it's very dense with buyers; however, you pay for it. It costs, in most cases, half of your potential income. For a full-timer, maximum movement is much more important, and paying that price is worth it.

Here's another factor: how good are your pipes? If you make exceptional pipes, you will sell them quickly (barring Messer-esque pricing). If you make mediocre pipes how you sell them becomes more of an issue. You need to stand out in ways other than the pipes. Social media can be amazing for this. Firing three crappy pipe pics a month at the world isn't it though.

Food for thought: if social media is a bad place to start, who the heck are you guys chapped at who are selling all their stuff on social media? It works. Pay attention to what the successful guys do.

[The Smoking Yeti]

Food for thought: if social media is a bad place to start, who the heck are you guys chapped at who are selling all their stuff on social media? It works. Pay attention to what the successful guys do.

True. Retailers usually give credibility to a carver, something which is much harder for social media to do. If you're in it for the long haul, I think this credibility seriously helps in the long-term.

[Tyler]

Food for thought: if social media is a bad place to start, who the heck are you guys chapped at who are selling all their stuff on social media? It works. Pay attention to what the successful guys do.

True. Retailers usually give credibility to a carver, something which is much harder for social media to do. If you're in it for the long haul, I think this credibility seriously helps in the long-term.

For the long term, your pipes, your presence, and you perseverance will speak to your credibility more than any retailer. What the retailer does is give you credibility early in the process.

[ToddJohnson]

Retailers can also play another important role, and that is basically QC. Yes, there are "retailers"--and I use that term loosely here--who will take pipes from anyone, consign them, and talk about how great they all are. The problem here is that, again, they're mostly turds, and neither the carver nor the buyer are being done any favors by having these pipes exist in the retail market.

For a legitimate retailer, there's a certain bar that a carver must clear in order to sell his pipes there, and a guy's third pipe is unlikely to make it into their store. Even if they're good, a guy making pipes for two months is a significant liability for a legitimate retailer. If they do their job and earn their money, a retailer will spend time, effort and resources to promote that carver and help to develop a following for his/her work. When that guy goes back to laying tile or driving trucks or selling insurance four months later, their time and money is lost. Additionally, someone who can't actually supply a retailer with sufficient product basically puts the retailer in the same boat. This is why it's important for a carver to court established and respected retailers. This is the difference between getting drafted in the first round by the Denver Broncos, or sitting the bench for a AA Canadian Arena League Football team. Technically, both guys can say they play "professional football," but only the guy with the Denver Broncos has anything to celebrate, really.

Tyler, you asked who everyone was "chapped" at for selling all their stuff on social media. First of all, I think you know that's not really a fair question. If anybody was going to post a list of these guys publicly, and by name, it would be me, and even I'm not willing to do that. My issue--and again, I find it hard to believe you don't understand the problem all too well--is that Social Media is creating a pipe-culture of ignorance, imitation, mediocrity, and a false sense of achievement.

It's a place where one's plagiarism can go unnoticed (or at least unchecked), where quantity and frequency of posts has far more to do with success than the quality of the work being done or the substance of what's being "said." It's also some place you can be rewarded with "likes" and a thousand variations of "great pipe, bruh," away from the prying eyes of anyone who might actually know how to judge what they're seeing. When you go to a show now, there are very few actual pipe carvers, only walking, talking Instagram Profiles with a complete line of hats, T-shirts, coffee mugs, monogrammed pillow pets, bumper stickers, and beanies. The focus is no longer on doing good work. The focus has shifted toward finding novel ways to promote bad work.

You've said that social media "works" and to pay attention to what the "successful guys do. I would respond by asking you at what cost to the pipe community does it "work," and who are the "successful guys?" Are they the guys who are making excellent pipes, or are they the guys managing to pawn their lumpy, unoriginal wood carvings off on an increasingly less educated and undiscerning consumer base?

In a certain sense, I have no dog in this fight. I don't really play on the field where a lot of this is happening. It would be really easy for me to continue selling the few pipes I have time to make for thousands of dollars, and just ignore everything going on "below" (and I mean that in a price-range sense). Unfortunately, I am cursed with the burden of genuine concern for something I've devoted more than 15 years to, and I'm not willing to sit on my hands and watch it rot. Nor am I willing to pretend it isn't rotting. Yes, the pendulum will swing back the other way and most of these guys will crawl back into their holes, but I've never been one to sit idle and wait out the storm. I think there's something worth preserving here, and I believe there's value in working to mitigate the storm damage while it's happening.

TJ

[sandahlpipe]

Social media does well in promoting absolutely anything and everything, yet it does so without a filter. That puts the person who makes high grades on more or less of an equal plane with those who are making turds. And because of the discouragement of negativity that goes along with social media, any sort of critique on social media makes the critic come across as the bad guy.

Yet there is a new group of pipe smokers who are learning about pipes through social media. They don't care about retailers and they don't care about the tradition of pipe smoking nearly as much. They also (so far) don't spend over $200 on a pipe, but generally prefer to buy handmade over factory things. These are facts that we aren't likely to change. And as long as there is Joe turd-buyer on Instagram, there will be a market for the turds, especially if you can make a different, unique turd for each person.

One of the main reasons I use Instagram (And I think I'm not alone in this) is to educate that market about what a pipe should be. I think eventually, the people who buy turds are going to lose interest in them and some of them will get to a point in life where they have money to buy real pipes. When that happens, they're still going to use Instagram, but they're going to buy pipes from the people that had been out of their price range. I've had several people tell me repeatedly that they want to buy my pipes, but they're in college right now and don't have the money.

I think social media can be a useful tool when used for the right purposes. I basically ignore all of the "Nice pipe" comments and look for honest feedback on this forum or send pictures to someone who will tell me the truth. I do, however, get the chance to explain things to new makers who ask and get a chance to educate some of the people in the market.

So yes, don't let the positive feedback go to your head on social media. But if the high grade makers stop posting, there won't be a path to recovery from the pipe turds when people are sick of them.

[Tyler]

Todd,

My question was intended as rhetorical and made to counter the idea proposed that social media doesn't work as an entry platform for selling pipes. It works great. My point with the question was to illustrate that it works so well some are offended and irritated by the success others are having using such a platform.

I don't give two hoots about how or where or why people sell their stuff, but I do like to help people out. I think some advice offered in this thread has been offered with a short-sighted perspective, and I am trying to offer counterpoints.

[LatakiaLover]

Sturgeon's Law---90% of everything is crap---is a constant. It hasn't really changed recently, it just looks that way.

What has happened is the primary filter that kept most of the pipe-crap out of the hands of buyers in the past has been largely removed. That filter being knowledgeable wholesalers and retailers. Today's social media has allowed makers direct access to buyers, and human nature is taking care of the rest. (Hucksters and suckers, basically, with a large dose of simple ignorance on both sides of the transaction.)

The only way to slow it down that I can see is to kill demand by educating potential customers.

A "Buying Guide/Evaluation" video could be spread by the same social media, for example. Never sell a pipe or make a post without the accompanying LinkTagHashPointerThingie. Saturate the ether with it. Fight fire with fire.

It should be entertaining, of professional quality, direct and clear of message, and collaborative. The product of the Professional Pipe Makers Alliance or some such.

As the buying public's eye for quality pipes develops, demand will shift accordingly.

[andrew]

I'm not offended that social media works for selling pipes. Completely discounting its utility would be stupid. I'm offended by liars, especially the ones with their pants on fire, but even the garden variety is still offensive. There's a disproportionate amount of that on social media because of the lack of checks/balances. When someone uses social media as their main outlet there is a greater chance for deceit.

You can picture Gargamel cackling here if that helps. Yes, I watched Smurfs too much.

[ToddJohnson]

Sturgeon's Law---90% of everything is crap---is a constant. It hasn't really changed recently, it just looks that way.

What has happened is the primary filter that kept most of the pipe-crap out of the hands of buyers in the past has been largely removed. That filter being knowledgeable wholesalers and retailers. Today's social media has allowed makers direct access to buyers, and human nature is taking care of the rest. (Hucksters and suckers, basically, with a large dose of simple ignorance on both sides of the transaction.)

The only way to slow it down that I can see is to kill demand by educating potential customers.

A "Buying Guide/Evaluation" video could be spread by the same social media, for example. Never sell a pipe or make a post without the accompanying LinkTagHashPointerThingie. Saturate the ether with it. Fight fire with fire.

It should be entertaining, of professional quality, direct and clear of message, and collaborative. The product of the Professional Pipe Makers Alliance or some such.

As the buying public's eye for quality pipes develops, demand will shift accordingly.

George,

First let me say, I think this is the best thought out, most positive, and most helpful bit of writing in what has become a very long and meandering (but mostly useful) thread. I also like that the suggestion came from your (electronic) mouth, simply because, in writing, you and I often come off as being at odds with one another. The fact that we agree point-for-point on this could potentially recommend it as a wise idea. It's such a wise idea, in my opinion, that something like it is already in the works. Frankly though, I like the collaborative element of your idea better, and I think it would really say something to the pipe community if it came from dozens of actual pipe makers. You've also articulated the idea more clearly than it existed in my head.

The main hurdle I see is the establishment of the "Professional Pipe Makers Alliance," from whom this informational video should most certainly come. The idea has been floated before, and it received something of a lukewarm reception. I think the primary reason is that nobody wanted anyone else determining whether they did or did not "qualify," or where exactly they might fall in a "guild" system of sorts. At this point though, I think it's time to revisit the idea, but in a different manner. I would posit something like a pipe maker's "code of ethics" as the primary threshold for inclusion. There would need to be others--like not having a history of violating everything that would likely be included in such a code--but I think it should be something open to everyone doing excellent work in their small corner of pipedom, and striving to offer an excellent product to their collectors. What it should not be is a small clique, an "old boys" club, or a popularity contest.

There are a million tiny details that would need to be sorted out, but I think it's worth putting our heads together on it and just taking it one step at a time. It could be difficult, but I'm of the opinion that it's worth doing. This is exactly the sort of "storm-damage mitigation" I was talking about, and I really appreciate the thoughtful and well reasoned suggestion, George. The fact that it didn't come as a "meme" is frankly a little disappointing, but I'll not split hairs. This is something constructive we can do, and I think it would be tremendously beneficial to the world of high grade pipes generally.

Thoughts,

TJ

[Ocelot55]

Whatever I can do to help, count me in! I think this idea has legs.

[The Smoking Yeti]

George,

we agree point-for-point on this
TJ

Thus Wilbur was granted wings, and flew sluggishly into the sunset.


I completely concur with the notion George is suggesting. Show pipe buyers where the bar actually is.

[sandahlpipe]

I think this proposal for some sort of alliance is a good idea, especially if it allows for aspiring makers with the proper attitude towards learning to take part.

Which, I suppose, means that I, too agree with George. Who would have thought that day would come?

[pipedreamer]

This is up Georges' alley! He is exact and appreciated, as you Todd. A consensus of what should be there in a pipe, may be touchy by some, but that's who you are trying to filter, while educating the public.I do not believe you will find resistance on the Pipe Makers Forum! It may even expedite evolution!

[Joe Hinkle Pipes]

I nominate Premal! j/k In all seriousness It would be cool if someone who had access to factory pipes, "artisan" pipes, and high grades, did a quick video explaining what you should be looking for in pipes that were in the $150 and below range, $200 to $300 range, $350 to $500 range, and so on up to high grade pipes. Maybe give a demo what you should or shouldn't see at that given price. could be a conglomeration of opinions from the forum or written by someone here and spoken by a respected player in the pipe game. We could all blast it out on social media and crush these turds that wont flush.

[The Smoking Yeti]

I nominate Premal! j/k In all seriousness It would be cool if someone who had access to factory pipes, "artisan" pipes, and high grades, did a quick video explaining what you should be looking for in pipes that were in the $150 and below range, $200 to $300 range, $350 to $500 range, and so on up to high grade pipes. Maybe give a demo what you should or shouldn't see at that given price. could be a conglomeration of opinions from the forum or written by someone here and spoken by a respected player in the pipe game. We could all blast it out on social media and crush these turds that wont flush.

I imagine it'd be helpful to have a variety of ways to transmit the message- simple graphics short videos, and a full writeup on pipedia which could be linked to. Outlining requisites for the different price points would also be very helpful. Having it compiled by many people within the community(pipe makers, collectors, retailers) would give it additional weight. If it were just TJ giving the information, it would be easy for people to write it off as opinion. It is something which has to come from many well respected people within the community.