Do the prices of other pipe makers bother you?

[mredmond]

Wayne, I've thought about that, too. There are only so many things that any of us can control, so I try to strike a balance. I think there's a way to price my work so that many believe I'm a value but that I'm not so low so that most question quality. That seems like a good way to enter the market, but I'm sure there will be surprises. There will always be exceptions and one can never make everybody happy, unfortunately.

[sandahlpipe]

The only problem with this philosophy is that there are some out there who will think your work isn't as good JUST BECAUSE IT'S PRICE LOWER. This is primarily the case if you haven't built up a reputation of reliability and quality in your work. It's also especially true if they can't physically see, hold, and inspect your work to see that the quality is exceptional. There's a big risk in purchasing a pipe on the internet from a maker you're not familiar with.

I've been wondering about that as well. I've heard that some people will be unable to sell their pipes and then they jack up their prices by a hundred or more and they sell like hotcakes. I see a lot of pipes with comparable quality being sold for $200-$300 more than what I'm selling for and I know that a lot of that is due to reputation, but I think hype has a lot to do with how pipes sell in the market.

[The Smoking Yeti]

Now, I'm not suggesting you go raise prices, I'm just saying, too-high prices don't usually drive pipe makers out of business.

Bingo!

When I first realized this, it really bothered me. Now, it only motivates me.

Talking with Chris Asteriou in Chicago this year, I was bemoaning how poor the quality of a very popular/expensive artisan's slot work and shaping is(for the price), to me it's sad that people pay so much just for a name. Chris's response was "Yes, but they have style". He's right. If you're making technically perfect pipes that aren't very interesting/ stylistically unique, it's going to limit your asking price and demand- people can find a dozen other makers doing the same exact thing, at which point it becomes a matter of reputation or price comparison. I personally don't want people to look at my work and compare the pipe in question to other similarly shaped pipes. I want people to want the pipe because I'm the one who made it.

How you accomplish this? I'm still not sure.

[Tyler]

I want people to want the pipe because I'm the one who made it.

How you accomplish this? I'm still not sure.

Stick around. That's the main trick.

Alternatively, generate raging and widespread positive publicity. That's really hard though. Sticking around is easier, and anyone can do it.

[cmcclarney]

I'm not... but if I was selling pipes I had worked hard on - I might be mad about something like this going for $300: http://www.pipesandcigars.com/pipes/745 ... /#p-119838

Step 1: Purchase pipe kit
Step 2: Polish
Step 3: Profit

[socrates]

I would not pay a high price for a pipe made by an inexperienced pipe maker or one with a limited number of pieces under their belts. I made custom fishing rods and my prices started out low and they went up as my skills and demand increased. I knew when I was where I wanted to be when folks chased me down for rods and where relentless until I filled their orders. Time, hard work and exceptional skill levels will dictate pricing.

[JonBood]

Time, hard work and exceptional skill levels will dictate pricing.

I believe this is true for experienced enthusiasts, "well read" customers and a loyal customer base.

On the other hand there is a hype of "hand made quality" right now that seems to be making people go nuts.
The way I see it, the problem is; most people don't know what quality looks like, specially not through internet browsing. The price tag becomes an indicator and inferior craftsmanship can be sold at premium prices.

Best regards, Jon

[DrewEstateSam]

Exposure is key, marketing is key. You need to build a hype, and demand around your products. Social media is the cheap free way to go about this. I've bought pipes from Joe and Micah. Both make a great product that warrants a higher price tag than I paid, and I paid what they were asking for them. There are guys that sell a lot of pipes through Instagram and Facebook as their main outlet. Many of these makers make a good product, but have built a following and customer base well beyond their CURRENT Pipemaking abilities. Look at the template these guys have made, and use it in your own way. Post a at least once, if you can pull off 3 posts a day that are spaced out you will get exposure to pipe enthusiasts. Don't just post your finished pipe, use pics from the Pipemaking process, as well as your own activities. I hunt, I fish, I'm a huge sports fan, and I work my ass off selling cigars on he road, people will connect with you on more than just Pipemaking and smoking, and this is how you build fans of you, and not just your work on pipes. Use #hashtags properly #pipemakers #pipemaking and in credit to Shalosky #artisanpipes. People search for these on IG, really people like me do. The more people that see your product, the more likely you are to make a sale, or in Instagrams case build a following about you and your pipes. Make your social media "handle" the same on Instagram, and twitter. Link your IG account to twitter and Facebook, 1 post becomes 3 in different social media circles. I know most of the guys here have other jobs than Pipemaking, who is to say middle of the day you just finished fixing a leaky pipe as a plumber, post the pic of the stummel you were working on last night. Expose yourself, but don't put your junk away. She the rejected stummel you worked 5 hours on, show that it's not going to be for sale and why you don't want something that isn't near perfect with your brand/own name on. If you have a good logo, or good slogan see about getting t shirts made, locally I know a guy that can do shirts as cheap as 3 shirts for what 1 decent ebauchon block runs (if in quantity) Throw the guy who buys a pipe from you a shirt, he markets your product for you in tobacco shops, or wherever else he travels.

Just a few thoughts. Sorry for being long winded and not grammatically correct.

[scotties22]

Exposure is key, marketing is key. You need to build a hype, and demand around your products. Social media is the cheap free way to go about this. I've bought pipes from Joe and Micah. Both make a great product that warrants a higher price tag than I paid, and I paid what they were asking for them. There are guys that sell a lot of pipes through Instagram and Facebook as their main outlet. Many of these makers make a good product, but have built a following and customer base well beyond their CURRENT Pipemaking abilities. Look at the template these guys have made, and use it in your own way. Post a at least once, if you can pull off 3 posts a day that are spaced out you will get exposure to pipe enthusiasts. Don't just post your finished pipe, use pics from the Pipemaking process, as well as your own activities. I hunt, I fish, I'm a huge sports fan, and I work my ass off selling cigars on he road, people will connect with you on more than just Pipemaking and smoking, and this is how you build fans of you, and not just your work on pipes. Use #hashtags properly #pipemakers #pipemaking and in credit to Shalosky #artisanpipes. People search for these on IG, really people like me do. The more people that see your product, the more likely you are to make a sale, or in Instagrams case build a following about you and your pipes. Make your social media "handle" the same on Instagram, and twitter. Link your IG account to twitter and Facebook, 1 post becomes 3 in different social media circles. I know most of the guys here have other jobs than Pipemaking, who is to say middle of the day you just finished fixing a leaky pipe as a plumber, post the pic of the stummel you were working on last night. Expose yourself, but don't put your junk away. She the rejected stummel you worked 5 hours on, show that it's not going to be for sale and why you don't want something that isn't near perfect with your brand/own name on. If you have a good logo, or good slogan see about getting t shirts made, locally I know a guy that can do shirts as cheap as 3 shirts for what 1 decent ebauchon block runs (if in quantity) Throw the guy who buys a pipe from you a shirt, he markets your product for you in tobacco shops, or wherever else he travels.

Just a few thoughts. Sorry for being long winded and not grammatically correct.

Speaking of selling cigars on the road, will you be here in KC at the Outlaw next Friday and Saturday?

[sandahlpipe]

Exposure is key, marketing is key. You need to build a hype, and demand around your products. Social media is the cheap free way to go about this. I've bought pipes from Joe and Micah. Both make a great product that warrants a higher price tag than I paid, and I paid what they were asking for them. There are guys that sell a lot of pipes through Instagram and Facebook as their main outlet. Many of these makers make a good product, but have built a following and customer base well beyond their CURRENT Pipemaking abilities. Look at the template these guys have made, and use it in your own way. Post a at least once, if you can pull off 3 posts a day that are spaced out you will get exposure to pipe enthusiasts. Don't just post your finished pipe, use pics from the Pipemaking process, as well as your own activities. I hunt, I fish, I'm a huge sports fan, and I work my ass off selling cigars on he road, people will connect with you on more than just Pipemaking and smoking, and this is how you build fans of you, and not just your work on pipes. Use #hashtags properly #pipemakers #pipemaking and in credit to Shalosky #artisanpipes. People search for these on IG, really people like me do. The more people that see your product, the more likely you are to make a sale, or in Instagrams case build a following about you and your pipes. Make your social media "handle" the same on Instagram, and twitter. Link your IG account to twitter and Facebook, 1 post becomes 3 in different social media circles. I know most of the guys here have other jobs than Pipemaking, who is to say middle of the day you just finished fixing a leaky pipe as a plumber, post the pic of the stummel you were working on last night. Expose yourself, but don't put your junk away. She the rejected stummel you worked 5 hours on, show that it's not going to be for sale and why you don't want something that isn't near perfect with your brand/own name on. If you have a good logo, or good slogan see about getting t shirts made, locally I know a guy that can do shirts as cheap as 3 shirts for what 1 decent ebauchon block runs (if in quantity) Throw the guy who buys a pipe from you a shirt, he markets your product for you in tobacco shops, or wherever else he travels.

Just a few thoughts. Sorry for being long winded and not grammatically correct.

I've been doing the Instagram marketing probably as long as anyone on the forum. When I was selling pipes under $200 on a regular basis, I had a lot of customers. When my work warranted an increase to between $200-$300, my sales through Instagram started tapering off. I still keep doing Instagram, because it's easy and I enjoy it. I hope that more of my followers will become customers as they get more into buying high quality pipes instead of just whatever is cheap. Maybe it's just me, though.

[Joe Hinkle Pipes]

Drewestatesam, you little bastard! I didnt know you were on this forum. Ive been thinking about this subject since your condensed text saying the same thing. My website has been up for two weeks and I have had a pipe sale, a pending sale, And two commission requests in the last two days. It really is all about the exposure and exuding a classy, professional face to the world. Thanks for your advise and help my friend. It is truly appreciated. On a similar note: everything that premal told me in the little time I spent with him about pipemaking, pipe selling, and pipe smoking has been absolutely correct, even though I resisted on some things. So thank you to premal as well for taking the time to help me out. And Nate, you'll get yours when you least expect it.

[DrewEstateSam]

Exposure is key, marketing is key. You need to build a hype, and demand around your products. Social media is the cheap free way to go about this. I've bought pipes from Joe and Micah. Both make a great product that warrants a higher price tag than I paid, and I paid what they were asking for them. There are guys that sell a lot of pipes through Instagram and Facebook as their main outlet. Many of these makers make a good product, but have built a following and customer base well beyond their CURRENT Pipemaking abilities. Look at the template these guys have made, and use it in your own way. Post a at least once, if you can pull off 3 posts a day that are spaced out you will get exposure to pipe enthusiasts. Don't just post your finished pipe, use pics from the Pipemaking process, as well as your own activities. I hunt, I fish, I'm a huge sports fan, and I work my ass off selling cigars on he road, people will connect with you on more than just Pipemaking and smoking, and this is how you build fans of you, and not just your work on pipes. Use #hashtags properly #pipemakers #pipemaking and in credit to Shalosky #artisanpipes. People search for these on IG, really people like me do. The more people that see your product, the more likely you are to make a sale, or in Instagrams case build a following about you and your pipes. Make your social media "handle" the same on Instagram, and twitter. Link your IG account to twitter and Facebook, 1 post becomes 3 in different social media circles. I know most of the guys here have other jobs than Pipemaking, who is to say middle of the day you just finished fixing a leaky pipe as a plumber, post the pic of the stummel you were working on last night. Expose yourself, but don't put your junk away. She the rejected stummel you worked 5 hours on, show that it's not going to be for sale and why you don't want something that isn't near perfect with your brand/own name on. If you have a good logo, or good slogan see about getting t shirts made, locally I know a guy that can do shirts as cheap as 3 shirts for what 1 decent ebauchon block runs (if in quantity) Throw the guy who buys a pipe from you a shirt, he markets your product for you in tobacco shops, or wherever else he travels.

Just a few thoughts. Sorry for being long winded and not grammatically correct.

Speaking of selling cigars on the road, will you be here in KC at the Outlaw next Friday and Saturday?

No Scottie, I will not. I cover Western PA Michigan West Virginia and Ohio. I'm guessing Fabien, and Ryan Pohler will be there. They only let me out of my yard for a few pipe shows here and there a year.

[DrewEstateSam]

Drewestatesam, you little bastard! I didnt know you were on this forum. Ive been thinking about this subject since your condensed text saying the same thing. My website has been up for two weeks and I have had a pipe sale, a pending sale, And two commission requests in the last two days. It really is all about the exposure and exuding a classy, professional face to the world. Thanks for your advise and help my friend. It is truly appreciated. On a similar note: everything that premal told me in the little time I spent with him about pipemaking, pipe selling, and pipe smoking has been absolutely correct, even though I resisted on some things. So thank you to premal as well for taking the time to help me out. And Nate, you'll get yours when you least expect it.

Joe, I lurk, learn and look at pics. I can't add my $.02 to Pipemaking queries, but I think I can for marketing, and the occasional end consumer point of view.

[sandahlpipe]

Drewestatesam, you little bastard! I didnt know you were on this forum. Ive been thinking about this subject since your condensed text saying the same thing. My website has been up for two weeks and I have had a pipe sale, a pending sale, And two commission requests in the last two days. It really is all about the exposure and exuding a classy, professional face to the world. Thanks for your advise and help my friend. It is truly appreciated. On a similar note: everything that premal told me in the little time I spent with him about pipemaking, pipe selling, and pipe smoking has been absolutely correct, even though I resisted on some things. So thank you to premal as well for taking the time to help me out. And Nate, you'll get yours when you least expect it.

Joe, I lurk, learn and look at pics. I can't add my $.02 to Pipemaking queries, but I think I can for marketing, and the occasional end consumer point of view.

I'd love to pick your brain on marketing. That's probably my biggest struggle in anything I've ever done. I'm trying to learn what I can. Now that I know you hang out here, I'm going to think up some specific questions related to marketing to ask.

[BriarBlues]

Good Day All;

I’m not really sure if my thoughts will be accepted, but I’ll offer them anyway, then climb back into my cave and take cover.

I have long said that the most difficult part of pipe carving is setting the end selling price. There is no simple formula that a carver might use to make it easier. The typical manufacturing model of material costs, plus labor ( time ), plus markup, do not really work.
Material costs can vary depending on quality of materials used, quantity purchased, plus sheer luck. By sheer luck I mean in briar, and how many blocks are useable and how many yield home heating fuel. I guess that some carvers are just luckier or maybe better able to read the blocks and cut away problematic areas better than others.

Labor depends on the speed of the carver OR how much time a carver is willing to put into the process. Some are just down right slow. Others are not slow, but perfectionists. Maybe even beyond that …. The guys that look down a stems air passage to make sure it is polished and shines like a mirror. Others have hand eye speed skill that is incredible. Thus how can one set a fixed hourly or daily rate per pipe, as the carvers length of time required varies?

Mark –up maybe the easiest part. If as a carver you have it in mind that a basic sand blast that you have created should sell for a full srp of $300.00, and you are possibly thinking of having some retailers sell pipes with you ( as opposed to for you ), then you will need to think that through. The retailer will expect wholesale prices, which are 50% of SRP. Thus that $300.00 pipe, will mean the retailer will pay you $150.00. Well ok the mark up isn’t so easy either.

One might suggest trying to compare your finished pipes against other carvers pipes. On first blush that may sound like a good idea. Personally it’s not a method I’d recommend. Leave the comparisons to the buyers. They will speak with their wallets. You’re not competing against each other. As a pipe carver you compete against the briar block before you and yourself. You are trying to bring the best out of both with each and every stroke of sandpaper or whatever tool you have in hand.

Now this part may get some upset. There are some very seriously skilled pipe carvers that reside here. At the same time there are some that really should rethink the possibility of a career as a pipe carver. When I see some of the utter crap that is being sold as “high grade “ I shudder. Stem work that is mediocre at best. As thick as a pregnant snake with a button that stands 8 mm tall. I see light gaps between stem and shank that a business card will fit into. Shape flow that is nonexistent. The list goes on and on. I see rusticated chunky poorly constructed pipes being sold for $250.00 +. While this is going on I also see some superb, well made, well designed pipes in similar prices just sitting un sold.

Part of the equation is “marketing / hype”. Or as I prefer to call it … smoke and mirrors. The only advice I can offer to any carver is not to believe all the hype you may hear / read. Unless those smiling faces at shows are handing you money to buy what’s on the table, then whatever they say, no matter how gracious or complimentary is just fluff.

It takes confidence in one’s self to create a career as a full time pipe carver. It requires an incredible amount of skill, diligence, willingness to learn, and a constant eagerness to be the best.

As someone that has tried to carver pipes in the past, AND learned very quickly I do not have the skills required, I am in awe of what many carvers can do.

As a seller of pipes I often shake my head at what some people consider a “high quality” pipe. Yes quality is perception, but you all know it when you have it in hand. Admit it. If you pick up a pipe that is of serious quality, you all know it. You know it when you pick up a Weaver, a Gracik, a Rad, and countless others. You also know it when something is a complete turd, no matter how well polished, it’s still a turd.

Please accept my apology for entering your domain.

Regards
Michael J. Glukler

[sandahlpipe]

There are some very seriously skilled pipe carvers that reside here. At the same time there are some that really should rethink the possibility of a career as a pipe carver. When I see some of the utter crap that is being sold as “high grade “ I shudder. Stem work that is mediocre at best. As thick as a pregnant snake with a button that stands 8 mm tall. I see light gaps between stem and shank that a business card will fit into. Shape flow that is nonexistent. The list goes on and on. I see rusticated chunky poorly constructed pipes being sold for $250.00 +. While this is going on I also see some superb, well made, well designed pipes in similar prices just sitting un sold.

Part of the equation is “marketing / hype”. Or as I prefer to call it … smoke and mirrors. The only advice I can offer to any carver is not to believe all the hype you may hear / read. Unless those smiling faces at shows are handing you money to buy what’s on the table, then whatever they say, no matter how gracious or complimentary is just fluff.

I think your analysis of the situation is accurate. There are a lot of ugly pipes being sold for a lot of money and a lot of gorgeous pipes sitting unsold. It seems to me that while attention to detail makes pipes that are valuable in the long term, hype sells pipes. Is there any advice you can give for those who focus on high quality pipes to generate a modest amount of hype to sell their pipes? It seems that the market needs an education in what constitutes a pipe of beauty. How can the market be educated?

[BriarBlues]

Hello Jeremiah;

How to create interest in your pipes? Do pipe shows. Go to pipe clubs that are within driving distance. Get active on pipe collector forums. Do not be afraid to ask for constructive criticism from other carvers that you respect. Don't be afraid to ask well known collectors for an honest assessment. Ask them not to be polite and offer the gracious, yes it's really nice crap. Ask them to tear it apart IF possible. Same with the other carvers. Ask them to find what they see as mistakes and issues.

Once word gets around that you are indeed serious and sincere about your craft, the interest will follow. Honestly you do not want hype! What you should be looking for is serious interest from buyers / collectors. Hype lasts a short time. Todays hot topic is tomorrows forgotten memory. Longevity counts. It takes time to create longevity.

Regards
Michael J. Glukler

[DrewEstateSam]

Hello Jeremiah;

How to create interest in your pipes? Do pipe shows. Go to pipe clubs that are within driving distance. Get active on pipe collector forums.

Honestly you do not want hype! What you should be looking for is serious interest from buyers / collectors. Hype lasts a short time. Todays hot topic is tomorrows forgotten memory. Longevity counts. It takes time to create longevity.

Regards
Michael J. Glukler

I respectfully disagree with the above parts of Michael's statement.

Yes while pipe shows and pipe Clubs are very important, they will limit your exposure if thats all you do. Theres 2 pipe clubs within 150 miles of my home, i live in a major city (pittsburgh) and both of those clubs share the 20 members between the 2. The first statement is beyond true, if said in a world before social media existed.

Every major luxury car brand, watch brand, high end mens accessory companies , etc... feed off of hype. Why do you think every new rapper that makes it big buys a 600 benz s class, a ferrari, and a platinum Rolex Daytona Chronograph (alot of times they're fakes and pay the same as real ones because they don't know any better) if you match hype with a quality product, then you will have staying power. If you have hype and no quality, then you have the short shelf life. The modern collector is different than the guys that collected old Charatans, Dunhill, and Sasieni. If you called Doc Brown got the keys to the DeLorean and go back 50 years you would get laughed out of a tobacco shop smoking a modern RC Blowfish, which a guy like Brandon Marquette collects. The modern collectors are on Facebook, Instagram and Youtube. For these guys every day is a pipe show when they open their social media app of choice.

[sandahlpipe]

If you called Doc Brown got the keys to the DeLorean and go back 50 years you would get laughed out of a tobacco shop smoking a modern RC Blowfish, which a guy like Brandon Marquette collects. The modern collectors are on Facebook, Instagram and Youtube. For these guys every day is a pipe show when they open their social media app of choice.

So besides posting your work on social media, what things (from your point of view) help to create hype alongside a good product? Is it the photography, the shapes, offering discounts or freebies? Also, does hype have a price point past which it doesn't work? Since I am a natural skeptic, I look at the posts of those who do sell lots of pipes and think how much of a turn off that particular piece must be, but then it sells. Perhaps an example link to an effective social media post and why that particular post works would help me figure out this aspect.

[d.huber]

If you called Doc Brown got the keys to the DeLorean and go back 50 years you would get laughed out of a tobacco shop smoking a modern RC Blowfish, which a guy like Brandon Marquette collects. The modern collectors are on Facebook, Instagram and Youtube. For these guys every day is a pipe show when they open their social media app of choice.

So besides posting your work on social media, what things (from your point of view) help to create hype alongside a good product? Is it the photography, the shapes, offering discounts or freebies? Also, does hype have a price point past which it doesn't work? Since I am a natural skeptic, I look at the posts of those who do sell lots of pipes and think how much of a turn off that particular piece must be, but then it sells. Perhaps an example link to an effective social media post and why that particular post works would help me figure out this aspect.

This is a great question and one that I am very curious about.

I've accidentally stumble upon a few carvers whose work is poor only to find they have several thousand followers on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, etc. I use all of those social media constantly and have not garnered that kind of a following. And here I thought I was pretty. So I guess the question is, what are they doing that I'm not?

I think that what Mike and Sam say are true and are not mutually exclusive. You want to throw a wide net. A lot of serious collectors attend pipe shows regularly and do not participate in social media as much, if at all. I think it's fair to say that the majority of newer collectors lack the quality detector that the more experienced collectors do. As a result, more experienced collectors tend to be much more cautious with their dollar when buying through social media. I've garnered a few excellent customers and friends who had been watching me on social media, but been too afraid to make a purchase because they'd never been able to see my work in person. When I met them at a show, their fear vanished. In those instances, the social media made the connection but making the effort to participate in the community in person closed the deal. On the flip side, I've met a huge number of people at pipes shows who have followed me on social media as a result of meeting me in person and some of them have become customers.

I think that Mike's advice is not only sound but tried and proved over and over again. With that being said, I think any modern pipe maker who is not using social media to their advantage is doing themselves a grave disservice, just as Sam said.

If you want to be truly successful, I think that going to pipe shows, participating in pipe clubs, and having a large and active presence on social media are all paramount. Besides, this whole thing is a lot more fun that way.