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When stabilizing wood for knife scales and pistol grips a vacuum chamber is used to assist in drawing in the stabilizing liquid deeper into the wood. Has this technique been used for deep staining pipes?

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Interesting question - will lead to freeze-drying, and other questions. Bet this will be a big post.

Red wrote:Interesting question - will lead to freeze-drying, and other questions. Bet this will be a big post.

I reckon if one is going to make a pipe from a chunk of Filet Mignon lol. I used to use a vacuum packaging device to attempt to do my own stabizing. Not strong enough! However just the other day on the bay I ran across two commercially made units for vacuum stabilizing wood. Both were under a buck 2o. Naturally that got me to thinking.

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I'm not trying to poop on your party, but why? I've never had the need or seen the need for deep staining, plus it could taste gross. Scales are typically submerged in the stabilizer if I remember correctly.

andrew

andrew wrote:I'm not trying to poop on your party, but why? I've never had the need or seen the need for deep staining, plus it could taste gross. Scales are typically submerged in the stabilizer if I remember correctly.

andrew

I guess for a stupid reason Andrew. Knowledge! Scales if done correctly for good penetration is assisted by vacuum. Out of curiosity what's your point?


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Tom Eltang used(uses) some sort of vacuum chamber staining for his Sarah Eltang line of pipes. You can hear that straight from Tom himself on a video from the Al Pascia website.

http://www.alpascia.com/pipes/d/Sara-El ... 15947.html

I'm with Andrew. I'm not sure why you would want to vacuum stain briar. What would the benefit be over traditional staining methods?

Ocelot55 wrote:Tom Eltang used(uses) some sort of vacuum chamber staining for his Sarah Eltang line of pipes. You can hear that straight from Tom himself on a video from the Al Pascia website.

http://www.alpascia.com/pipes/d/Sara-El ... 15947.html

Thanks very much. Certainly shows it's being done. Now what it looks like compared to the traditional method would have to be seen in comparision. As for time spent doing each way for the same end result ????. A deep stain may make for some interesting end results when compared to a surface stain. An inquisitive mind wants to know LMAO .

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I guess the point is, I don't personally like going down a road if the results are more than likely going to yield little fruit. Without any help, stain already has a tendency to creep into the chamber. This is not a good thing. It typically results in a needed bowl coat. I was assuming since you are posting an idea and not results of experimentation that you would want some input as to its possible value.
You are talking about saturating a non- visible part of the pipe with color. It doesn't speed anything up or yield any apparent benefit. That's why I'm trying to steer you away from this as a productive inquiry. Don't get me wrong, experimentation can be fun. At this point in your "pipe making journey" this type of experimentation typically yields very little real fruit. Just trying to guide you towards productive endeavors .

andrew

socrates wrote:

andrew wrote:I'm not trying to poop on your party, but why? I've never had the need or seen the need for deep staining, plus it could taste gross. Scales are typically submerged in the stabilizer if I remember correctly.

andrew

I guess for a stupid reason Andrew. Knowledge! Scales if done correctly for good penetration is assisted by vacuum. Out of curiosity what's your point?


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Scales are a bit different from pipes... mostly due to the smoking bit .

andrew

I could see the benefit if briar was translucent and the layers of deeper stain could be seen. But, it's not. Penetration of stain doesn't really alter the final look of the pipe. I'm still not following you on this one. I can certainly see the benefits of a vacuum to stabilize some of the alternative materials we use to dress up a pipe. Using it on briar, I'm afraid, is likely a big waste of time but knock yourself out and post your results here whether good or bad so we can all learn from your experiment.

From my understanding, briar does not do too well with a open or closed cell stabilizing, atleast with epoxies. It does not absorb stuff like most other woods do. The undercoats you see people use, mostly black alcohol based stain, penetrate deep enough to create the nice contrast finishes, without the need of any further penetration. At best, you'd be achieving the same results, so the extra step may not be worth it. I'd like to hear results if you choose to try it, but I'd be leary of smoking it due to the toxicity factor. Plugging the holes while submerging the pipe in a product would seep and your product would be in the bowl, where you don't want it.

I think there may be a misunderstanding here. I only mentioned stabilizing as an example and for the vacuum chamber availability. My question was about using the chamber as a means of delivering color into the wood not stabilizing it. I realize the stabilizing solution once set would be like smoking plastic. My sole intent is the issue of deeper introduction of color/dye. As for stabilizing wood that would be for soft or spalted woods used for grips or scales. So again let me say the vacuum chamber as related to my question is for the delivery of color not plastic solutions.

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andrew wrote:

socrates wrote:

andrew wrote:I'm not trying to poop on your party, but why? I've never had the need or seen the need for deep staining, plus it could taste gross. Scales are typically submerged in the stabilizer if I remember correctly.

andrew

I guess for a stupid reason Andrew. Knowledge! Scales if done correctly for good penetration is assisted by vacuum. Out of curiosity what's your point?


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Scales are a bit different from pipes... mostly due to the smoking bit .

andrew

Absolutely Andrew but I don't want to stabilize Briar but stain it using a vacuum chamber.

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socrates wrote:My sole intent is the issue of deeper introduction of color/dye.

Why you are trying to do that?

To the best of my knowledge, several successful pipemakers have incorporated this technique. It's very essential to use food-safe dyes for the procedure though. I think some manner of vegetable based dye is most common. The results can create a more consistent contrast stain out of a less than perfect piece of briar(at least that's how I understand it). Basically when the stain goes deeper, it's harder to over-sand the undercoat. In fact, it's almost impossible. I may be wrong though- it'd be nice to hear from someone with actual experience on the matter.

Here's a photo that shows Adam Remington at least experimenting with the process. Idk if he uses it consistently now or what.

http://instagram.com/p/R1GSbLmBar/

The Smoking Yeti wrote: Basically when the stain goes deeper, it's harder to over-sand the undercoat.

Got it. Thanx.

If done correctly, staining with a vacuum chamber works very well, but you need proper equipment. Home use and light commercial equipment will not produce great results.

The Smoking Yeti wrote:To the best of my knowledge, several successful pipemakers have incorporated this technique. It's very essential to use food-safe dyes for the procedure though. I think some manner of vegetable based dye is most common. The results can create a more consistent contrast stain out of a less than perfect piece of briar(at least that's how I understand it). Basically when the stain goes deeper, it's harder to over-sand the undercoat. In fact, it's almost impossible. I may be wrong though- it'd be nice to hear from someone with actual experience on the matter.

Here's a photo that shows Adam Remington at least experimenting with the process. Idk if he uses it consistently now or what.

http://instagram.com/p/R1GSbLmBar/

That chamber looks like the type used for casting jewelry. The one I would use is less complex and less expensive lol. Thank you very much for your input and making me feel less like a moron and more like someone w/ a valid question. It would seem people with more skill and experience than I have the same interest.

I thank you ALL for your posts/input. When or if I get to this point I will gladly post the results for your scrutiny and opinions.

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PremalChheda wrote:If done correctly, staining with a vacuum chamber works very well, but you need proper equipment. Home use and light commercial equipment will not produce great results.

In looking at the instagram pic it looks like a vacuum casting setup. Would that be correct? I am considering a commercially made vacuum chamber made for use in stabilizing wood. Would this be substantial enough or is the vacuum needed more substantial?

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