Briar and heat transmission

[LatakiaLover]

Has anyone else noticed that some pipes smoke hot from day one and stay that way, while others smoke cool from the start and also stay that way?

I'm not talking about "taste heat", but bowl exterior heat. The measurable kind. What your hand feels, not (necessarily) your mouth.

Stranger still is that I have TWO thin-walled pipes---both Group 3 sized belges---that are among the coolest-to-the-touch pipes I own. At my normal/habitual puffing rate they barely get warm.

The only variable I can see in all this is the wood. Same smoker, same tobacco from the same jar, etc.. Trying to understand HOW briar can behave so differently from specimen to specimen, though, hurts my brain. Heat is physics, therefore at some level the difference must be quantifiable and explainable. But no joy, there. The sources that cover such things don't break things down past density and mass, which is too gross a measurement to be helpful. Something more pipe-specimen-specific is happening here, I think.

[d.huber]

I owned a Dunhill once upon a time that had very thin walls but never seemed to get hot. Not sure how that worked, though.

[baweaverpipes]

George,
Sorry it hurts your brain. Good you have enough in there to hurt!
Are your belge pipes cross cut or straight grain? Are they smooth or blasted? Were they bowl coated? How well do they draw? What's the humidity and elevation in KC? Do you light with a match or lighter? Do you wear wool, synthetic or cotton socks? Packers or hangers? Lastly, are these ever smoked during a full moon?
There are so many variables, George. The two belge pipes you have might smoke wet and hot with another person.
In answer to your question, who knows and why do you ask such argumentative questions?

[LatakiaLover]

George,
Sorry it hurts your brain. Good you have enough in there to hurt!
Are your belge pipes cross cut or straight grain? Are they smooth or blasted? Were they bowl coated? How well do they draw? What's the humidity and elevation in KC? Do you light with a match or lighter? Do you wear wool, synthetic or cotton socks? Packers or hangers? Lastly, are these ever smoked during a full moon?
There are so many variables, George. The two belge pipes you have might smoke wet and hot with another person.
In answer to your question, who knows and why do you ask such argumentative questions?

One is a blasted ring grain, and the other a cross cut smooth. The former is a Dunhill, and the latter a French-made GBD. Both draw great. The rest I assume is dry humor.

Your last sentence is key. You ask, rhetorically, "who knows?" meaning "who cares?" That would be me. There must be a reason for the difference, and I'm curious about pretty much everything, pipes in particular. Just born that way, I guess.

As for being argumentative, I don't see how. It isn't something anyone controls, is a process secret, or the like. It's hard to imagine a less contentious topic, imo.

[The Smoking Yeti]

George- I think Bruce was joking- aside from the grain orientation, which seemed like a worthwhile theory to explore. I personally would love to know the answer to that question, but I have contented myself with the understanding that briar is magical. Which is why I sand all my pipes naked in a mountain meadow by the light of the full moon. It works. Try one of my pipes.

[wisemanpipes]

Yeti pipes - rubbed naked in the moon light for your enjoyment

[LatakiaLover]

George- I think Bruce was joking- aside from the grain orientation, which seemed like a worthwhile theory to explore. I personally would love to know the answer to that question, but I have contented myself with the understanding that briar is magical. Which is why I sand all my pipes naked in a mountain meadow by the light of the full moon. It works. Try one of my pipes.

10-4 on the "briar is magic" catch-all. It's been my final refuge explanation for decades. Now that I'm getting older, though, there are some things I'd like to know before I check out, and the hot/cold pipe craziness is one of them.

Since everyone I've ever known lists "cool in hand" as a requirement for a pipe to be counted on their Life List of best pipes, being able to produce it at will would be a big deal, too.

As for Bruce joking, it never crossed my mind. Hell, I've rarely known him to be serious, but I read it as literal anyway. Really. A perfect joke after my Walt Adventure last week, timed perfectly, and I missed it. That's scary.

Living with pain distorts your perception and makes you cranky, I'm discovering.

[andrew]

Do you happen to have a make/model on these pipes? I've wondered about this for a while. Could be a fun project to try and work on. Do you have any dimensions on the pipes?

andrew

[WCannoy]

after my Walt Adventure last week

Packages start at $1499.

Contact your travel agent for more details!

[LatakiaLover]

after my Walt Adventure last week

Packages start at $1499.

Contact your travel agent for more details!

Google says no:

No results containing all your search terms were found.

Your search - cannoy "package travel deals" adventure - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.
Try fewer keywords.

[RadDavis]

So , George, you're saying that Walt & I are full of shit!!??

Rad

[WCannoy]

after my Walt Adventure last week

Packages start at $1499.

Contact your travel agent for more details!

Google says no:

No results containing all your search terms were found.

Your search - cannoy "package travel deals" adventure - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.
Try fewer keywords.

You've got to search for "Walt Adventure Package"

That'll get plenty of results.

Hope you like mice!

[LatakiaLover]

So , George, you're saying that Walt & I are full of shit!!??

[LatakiaLover]

You've got to search for "Walt Adventure Package"

That'll get plenty of results.

The mere thought of searching for that terrifying.

[andrew]

You've got to search for "Walt Adventure Package"

That'll get plenty of results.

The mere thought of searching for that terrifying.

andrew

[andrew]

So , George, you're saying that Walt & I are full of shit!!??

That just made my evening.

andrew

[Sasquatch]

There are a lot of variables, starting at definitions of nebulous things like "good smoker" and ending with fairly concrete things like the specific density of any piece of briar (a measurable number). How do we put all this junk into the mix and come up with something useful or concrete? I don't know if we can. Any two pipes that have the slightest physical difference in chamber, airway, stem shape etc can't be directly compared.

But if we built two identical pipes out of different pieces of briar, and found that upon packing exactly the same amount of tobacco exactly the same way and puffing on it (with our pre-measured pipe smoking machine) and found that one DID get hotter (and I would actually argue that this is the case - not all briar acts the same I think), where would we look for the difference?

Physically, what we are talking about is heat conduction. Wood isn't usually real good at this, it's an insulator, and I'd submit that wood full of silicate structures is probably even better at insulating. So that's where I'll look for an answer - I'll suggest that two otherwise indiscernible pieces of briar might behave differently if they have different silica contents.

How does insulating ability affect a pipe? If you think about a hot lump of smoldering tobacco, and you imagine it sitting inside and insulating chamber, like a thermos, you would think that after a few minutes, the tobacco would still be hot. In a conducting container, the heat would be "sucked out" of the tobacco. In other words to keep it burning, you would need to add more oxygen, and for your heat, rely on on what the tobacco is producing at any given moment. Back to the more insulating container, and heat is present, all you need to do is add a little air now and then to keep the burn going (which we are doing anyway).

So I'd hazard a guess that these pipes which we find continue to burn (quick example: I am half-way through a pipe, have to pop into the local hardware store. I put the pipe in my pocket, hope it stays upright, and do my shopping. Find and purchase a few bits and pieces, and when I get outside (probably 5 minutes) I put the pipe in my mouth and go to light it, only to find that it is still perfectly well lit and ready to go.) it's because they are transmitting LESS heat to the surrounding air and are in fact operating as a bit of a thermos.

Now to definitions: imagine a guy who has only smoked conducting-type briar. He gets a new pipe made of insulating briar, and smokes it aggressively to "keep it lit". Only, it IS lit and he is puffing far harder than he needs to. His likely criticism of the pipe? You guessed it - it's a hot, wet smoker!

So all we can do is make pipes, most of which are going to fall into whatever bell curve the briar offers. On the top end, fire-proof wonder briar, and on the bottom end, burnout-prone fluffy briar. Occassionally a particular pipe will fall in the hands of a particular smoker and they'll get along great, where-ever either of them falls on any given curve. And that's when you start hearing about magic pipes and that kind of stuff. The rest of the time, we just operate inside that curve, hope that most conditions are met by most blocks (and smokers) and the result is perfectly acceptable pipes.

[andrew]

I think high silica content will increase the heat conductivity. I've always wondered if an incomplete boiling process (less junk being leached out) would increase the heat transmitted to your hand. Basically, the more air you have between you and the flame, the better off you are. This is assuming consistently well engineered internals.

andrew

[andrew]

I know there are some woods that are very high in silicas. I wonder if they could offer us some insight... like if we see how well they burn?

andrew

[bregolad]

Thanks George for bringing this up. I haven't thought about it too much, but now that it's out there, it bothers me.

There are a lot of variables, starting at definitions of nebulous things like "good smoker" and ending with fairly concrete things like the specific density of any piece of briar (a measurable number). How do we put all this junk into the mix and come up with something useful or concrete? I don't know if we can. Any two pipes that have the slightest physical difference in chamber, airway, stem shape etc can't be directly compared.

But if we built two identical pipes out of different pieces of briar, and found that upon packing exactly the same amount of tobacco exactly the same way and puffing on it (with our pre-measured pipe smoking machine) and found that one DID get hotter (and I would actually argue that this is the case - not all briar acts the same I think), where would we look for the difference?

Physically, what we are talking about is heat conduction. Wood isn't usually real good at this, it's an insulator, and I'd submit that wood full of silicate structures is probably even better at insulating. So that's where I'll look for an answer - I'll suggest that two otherwise indiscernible pieces of briar might behave differently if they have different silica contents.

How does insulating ability affect a pipe? If you think about a hot lump of smoldering tobacco, and you imagine it sitting inside and insulating chamber, like a thermos, you would think that after a few minutes, the tobacco would still be hot. In a conducting container, the heat would be "sucked out" of the tobacco. In other words to keep it burning, you would need to add more oxygen, and for your heat, rely on on what the tobacco is producing at any given moment. Back to the more insulating container, and heat is present, all you need to do is add a little air now and then to keep the burn going (which we are doing anyway).

So I'd hazard a guess that these pipes which we find continue to burn (quick example: I am half-way through a pipe, have to pop into the local hardware store. I put the pipe in my pocket, hope it stays upright, and do my shopping. Find and purchase a few bits and pieces, and when I get outside (probably 5 minutes) I put the pipe in my mouth and go to light it, only to find that it is still perfectly well lit and ready to go.) it's because they are transmitting LESS heat to the surrounding air and are in fact operating as a bit of a thermos.

Now to definitions: imagine a guy who has only smoked conducting-type briar. He gets a new pipe made of insulating briar, and smokes it aggressively to "keep it lit". Only, it IS lit and he is puffing far harder than he needs to. His likely criticism of the pipe? You guessed it - it's a hot, wet smoker!

So all we can do is make pipes, most of which are going to fall into whatever bell curve the briar offers. On the top end, fire-proof wonder briar, and on the bottom end, burnout-prone fluffy briar. Occassionally a particular pipe will fall in the hands of a particular smoker and they'll get along great, where-ever either of them falls on any given curve. And that's when you start hearing about magic pipes and that kind of stuff. The rest of the time, we just operate inside that curve, hope that most conditions are met by most blocks (and smokers) and the result is perfectly acceptable pipes.

If it's not silica content, it's something.