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So I sold a pipe on Ebay a while back and the guy emailed me before Christmas to say the stem was wiggly while he was smoking and he thought the bowl was going to drop off. He sent it back to me. I did notice the stem was a little loose (wasn't that way when I sent it to him orignally). I took a little of the length off the tenon (it was a little too long) and used a tenon expander to widen the tenon a bit. I put it back together and check and check and tripple checked the fit. Everything looked fine....no more wiggle. I just got an email from him that the fit was so tight that he had to use graphite (???) to get the stem to go in and now he is saying there is a sizeable gap betwenn the stem and shank. He has sent the pipe to Walker Briar Works for repair...............


HELP....what the hell did I do wrong, or is it something that he did with the graphite? There was absolutely NO GAP at all and the stem actually fit better AFTER I fixed it. Also, would it had made a difference if he didn't let it warm up after the USPS dropped it off to him?

I don't know much about pipes yet but is it possible he could be taking the stem off and on when the pipe is warm?

Could it be that he is also impossible to please?

Some people are like that.

That's just what my husband said. Still bothers me though. I know the stem was right when I sent it to him. I just have no idea what he did to it.

Possible answers.

The briar was not fully dried when you carved the pipe and it dried out making the mortice larger.
You did the fix.
As he smoked the pipe the briar adsorbed moisture and expanded, thereby the stem got sticky, he applied graphite/pencil lead as a dry lubricant, the briar continued to expand and the mortice distorted slightly stopping the tennon going in.

Not that unusual in estate pipes but with a newly made one it really points to the briar not being dry enough. Mind you if the walls of the mortice a thin then they would be more subject to adsorption/getting tighter then drying/expanding.

If he has sent it to Walkers without your permission you don't have pay for any repairs-but check local variations.

David.

I'll have to go back and check who I got that block from. The walls of the mortise were pretty thick. He didn't ask me to pay for the repair, but gave me a "thanks for trying". I just couldn't figure out what happened becuase the stem fit was perfect when I sent it back.

Would it be out of line to call Walker's next week to find out how they are going to fix it?

scotties22 wrote:I'll have to go back and check who I got that block from. The walls of the mortise were pretty thick. He didn't ask me to pay for the repair, but gave me a "thanks for trying". I just couldn't figure out what happened becuase the stem fit was perfect when I sent it back.

Would it be out of line to call Walker's next week to find out how they are going to fix it?

No, and make sure you tell them what you've already done. It really sounds like a difficult client. And to be honest, you sold it on eBay, and you've already gone above and beyond what most would expect. With him futzing with it, it's hard to say what else he might have tried to "fix" it.

Here's some advice: Don't take the attitude that the customer is an asshole who's hard to please. He has a problem, and he wants it fixed. Don't take the attitude that because he bought the pipe on Ebay from you , he shouldn't expect much. Your name is on the pipe. Even if it isn't, you made the pipe, and it should be right if you're going to offer it for sale.

The customer isn't always right, but he is the customer, and bad news travels fast. I would contact Walker and see what they think the problem is. That way you might know what not to do again.

Rad

I agree with the idea that maybe the briar wasn't quite ready. That's not to say it isn't good briar, but that it was a little wet when you cut the pipe. Depending on when in the year you cut the pipe, where you stored it, where this guy lives... you could be transferring the pipe to a zone where the humidity is 40% different, right? Mortises move some.

Sounds like you expanded the tenon to fix it, and it may just have ... unexpanded on the way there. Might have been better to put a layer of urethane in the mortise.... dunno.

Anyhow, Rad's dead right. I suppose there are people who can't be pleased. But most people are pretty easy to please and a pipe with the stem falling out is not going to please anyone. I don't assume the complaint is made up. So... now it's a question of finding out what might have happened and maybe changing up your operation a bit to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I want to make sure this guy is taken care of, for sure. I don't want to give him any reason to say I make a bad pipe. I'm gonna give Walker's a call to see what they think the problem is and how they are going to fix it. Depending on how things go, and what they find, I might pay for the repair....we'll see. If it is the briar, it came to me wet. We had something like 12% humidity here all summer long (usually int he 60-80% range during the summer) so I know storage in my garage wasn't the problem. I have a few more blocks from this supplier that I might let sit a lot longer before I cut another pipe from them......good thing I have some blocks coming from Steve.

Cut pipes. Cut 'em right now. Then let 'em sit for a couple weeks, and then fit up your stem. Makes a huge difference if you have "fresh" briar.

I have a little heater out in my shop and it's just covered in stummels. I cut pipes, let them sit a day, heat them up to about 50 C for about a week, and then take them off and let them sit for at least another day at room temp. Makes a huge difference to mortise stability and final fit and finish.

One thing a shop owner mentioned to me once: he judged pipe quality not on what a pipe looked like that day, but what a pipe would look like after a year, or 5 years. The best made pipes still look and work basically the same after a year.

I have had this same issue Scottie. It is in fact climate change and "green" briar. I started doing what Sas does since last spring because of this problem. Another option available but not necessarily favorable to collectors is a delrin sleeve which will stabilize the fit and finish. This will not work if you're using delrin tenons though. I have used delrin sleeves in several pipes with ebonite/Cumberland intergral tenons, and is also my preferred method when using lucite stems. It allows me to make an intergral tenon with a perfect and very smooth fit. As far as stabilizing the briar, either do what Sas suggests, or learn how to oil cure them. Also ther is a post by Premal that has some suggestion for stabilizing the mortise.

Here you go
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6513

Climate, as stated is important . I made a pipe for a guy in Arizona and I'm in florida. He called me several days after getting the pipe because he couldn't get the stem back in. I started letting my blocks sit in a just warm cabinet before I use them. Then after finishing they sit for a week in the humid air.Then if all is good they ship, With the stem in. Cabinet is basically, light bulbs and a large wood box, Rad gave you the best advise as for the customer I feel. Hope all works out for you, let us know. :Sas and Premal sum it up on the link above.

I had one pipe come back for a stem tightening. I now sand out the mortise with a piece of fine sandpaper wrapped around a pin gage a few sizes smaller than the mortise. I also use beeswax when I'm fitting the tenon to the mortise.

Otherwise, I've heard the technique of fitting the stem and letting the pipe sit after drilling for a couple of months afterwards. I think with my 50 year old briar, it's dry enough I won't need to worry about that part, though it's probably a good habit to get into.


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Ha....I had forgotten about this. He never did send the pipe to Walkers and I never heard from him again. Hope it is smoking well for him.

Just out of curiosity what is everyone's thoughts on delrin sleeved mortise? I really find the function to be more beneficial. I have stopped doing this for the most part based on the consensus that people tend to look away when the know it has a delrin lined mortise. I have three customers that have pipes I made early on using this application, and I have had no complaints.

I only do it for structural purposes on thin shanked pipes. I've never had the need otherwise. I do stabilize the mortise right after checking the fit however.

andrew

same as andrew.

I'll check back in here too - having dried some stummels right out and shipped them to very wet locales (like coastal California) they totally expanded and fell apart. It's amazing how much the stuff moves.

I now think the best bet is well cured briar, left alone. The amount of differential I've seen would not be controlled by surface-treatment mortise stabilization - over time the wood is going to absorb or lose moisture depending on it's environment.

Crappy old greek briar moves less or a lot less quickly than fresh Italian wood.