Pricing

[dgerwin11]

So, I have reached a point where I am not embarrassed to ask people for money for one of my pipes. They are intended for now at least to be utilitarian pipes, not the high end pipes many of you make.

I am trying to figure out how to price them. I know all the mathematical.formulae for calculating a price. They are all missing one thing. Reputation. If the stars all aligned properly and everything fell into place and I made a pipe Todd or Rad would be proud of, I still could not get their price. You know the quality of pipe you will get from them. You know squat about what you would get from me. All the pretty words and pictures won't let you know if I know what I'm doing.

So I thought I would start out posting them to eBay and let the market help determine price. If after several pipes I don't like the price the market puts on them, I'll go back to just modifying cobs.

Thanks

[Ocelot55]

Pricing sucks...

There is a thread on pricing already but I'm too lazy to find it. What I would do is give some away to people you know will smoke them. If you've done your job of engineering correctly they should smoke great. Those people will in turn be able to recommend your pipes to others based on experience. "You know ______'s pipes don't look very special, but they smoke a hell of a lot better than my ______." I heard this all the time when I got started.

Ebay is NOT the way to go. Your prices will be forced lower than they should be unless you're turning out a phenomenal pipe.

When I got started I sold my pipes for $40-$65. Seconds were $20. I'm not sure if I would do things that way again. The last thing you want is to get put into a box where people get used to your lower prices, then when you want to increase all your business dries up.

There are a lot of other people more qualified to comment on price than me, but thats my two cents.

[dgerwin11]

I have given a couple to some pipe friends. Awaiting their response.

eBay can be a 2 edged sword. True, their are bottom feeders, but also some that do try to be realistic.

[PremalChheda]

You have to ultimately determine what is fair to the customer. I use a chart based on size and finish and then adjust accordingly.

[Sasquatch]

Doug there's a few other threads around here discussing this. There's no specifics answers, no specific formula.

For a long time (somewhat less now) I operated on the idea that at any given price point, a guy has options other than a pipe I made. At 100 bucks, a new Peterson. At 150 bucks, a new Mastro de Paja. At 250, a Ferndown. So I really tried hard to offer pipes that I thought were as good, competitive somehow, at any given price point. Why the hell should someone buy my pipe rather than a Peterson Rosslare?

If you are doing cob stuff, you are doing something a little different, and that allows you a little more flexibility in your market - there may not be a direct comparison. If you are doing briar stuff, look, really have a hard look, at what your pipes look like compared to other makers, maybe especially against other guys who have been doing it about as long as you, see what they are doing, see where their prices are at, see where your sales are at.

Personally, I always wanted to sell. I'd rather sell too cheap than not sell. But if a guy is willing to sit on a pipe till he finds someone who really wants it.... the price can be higher. And every once in awhile I list a pipe on my site, for example, thinking "Well, maybe someone will buy it at that price, maybe not." and pretty often it's gone in 10 minutes to my surprise. Other times I've sat on pipes that I thought were extraordinary, and had not a sniff for a month. So.... what's your business model? Do you need to sell every pipe instantly? At all?

[dgerwin11]

First thing Sas, remember I am the guy who said it was easy to make a small fortune carving pipes. Just start out with a big fortune. At this time I have no illusions about the state of my skills. But when I put a pipe up for sale, it will be the best I am now capable of. Not in league with yours, but a good serviceable pipe.

Like you early in your career, I would rather sell low than not at all. But hopefully not too low.

In order to get better I need to make more pipes. In order to make more pipes, I have to sell some to buy more material. Also, the more I can get in circulation, the more people have to evaluate.

Jon and David on the other forum each have one I sent them for feedback. That prick from Bombay is playing coy and has not even acknowledged to me that he received it. But after he figures I have suffered enough, he will have something to say.

BTW, I am not a freaking butterfly.

[wmolaw]

As I've stated before, I am not making pipes to sell. However, a friend of mine got me to give one to him for his oldest son, his son loves it, best smoking, yada, yada, yada.

So he asked me to make one for each of his other sons, two more. I did, and just said, $100 each. He said great, and off they go. Doubt I could sell them for anything like that on e-bay, no name, etc. but to someone who already knows your pipes smoke well, coupled with the fact he can always come back for a different stem, tweaking etc., AND I know the guy's financial resources, seemed a fair price and he was happy as hell.

Would hate to actually have to price a pipe to actually sell it, however. I follow e-bay all the time and it is clearly about rep, all about rep, and then some more about rep.

[dgerwin11]

I am still waiting to see what eBay brings.

Last night I listed one in my Etsy shop fo $60.00. 40 minutes later it was sold. The buyer had bought some of my cob nosewarmers in the past so I was not totally unknown to her.

I have received some advice from people I trust that concentrating on the utilitarian niche might be a viable way to go. Now my goal is to make each pipe better than the last. I can make a decent profit in that market sector..

Thanks for the input.

[Sasquatch]

Remember that eBay is where people line up to buy beat up old Petersons for just a little more than they'd pay for a new one. That tells you almost everything you need to know.

[dgerwin11]

I have come to the conclusion that for what I am making and where my skills are, a $60.00 price point is reasonable.

My goal is not to become the best and most famous pipe carver in the world. It is to make the best darned $60.00 pipe I can. Hopefully a bunch of people will get great smoking affordable pipes along the way.

I can still make a good profit at that price.

[kkendall]

I have come to the conclusion that for what I am making and where my skills are, a $60.00 price point is reasonable.

My goal is not to become the best and most famous pipe carver in the world. It is to make the best darned $60.00 pipe I can. Hopefully a bunch of people will get great smoking affordable pipes along the way.

I can still make a good profit at that price.

I don't see any pipes you've made posted in the gallery

[dgerwin11]

Kim,

You haven't already seen enough pictures of ugly pipes by novices? I will post some when I get to the point that it does not take half a page to give all the advice it would provoke.

[Bryan Johnson]

With eBay, you really can have it both ways: Simply set a fixed price and offer it as a "buy it now" listing. The advantage of eBay is that a lot of people go there, so your pipe will be seen by a lot of eyes. Even if you're an unknown, if you have a good, detailed description and several attractive photographs, you'll get a lot of attention.

Although an auction is supposed to be the pure way to establish a fair price (what a willing buyer pays a willing seller), everyone knows that there is some dark, mysterious force at work at eBay. You can set a price range for a few pipes, see how quickly they sell and, if they seem to sell too quickly, raise the price on the next batch. That's sort of hybrid way of doing it -- like a slow-motion, do-it-yourself auction.

By the way, I think eBay is offering free listings for "buy it now" items, now through January 2nd.

Oh, one other thing: If you sell a pipe you've listed on eBay to someone else, take down the eBay listing right away. They get pretty snarky if you don't deliver on an order. Also, on a regular auction listing, if someone has placed even one bid, you're stuck: You have to ride the auction out.

[dgerwin11]

Well there is still time to get the price up to where I think it should be. At least the current bid more than covers the cost of materials and fees. I did a gut check, and went with straight auction, hoping the willing buyer, willing seller concept works. Of course, it does not matter if I am willing once the auction started. But, it is the choice I made knowing the risks. It is still a learning curve.

[wmolaw]

Well there is still time to get the price up to where I think it should be. At least the current bid more than covers the cost of materials and fees. I did a gut check, and went with straight auction, hoping the willing buyer, willing seller concept works. Of course, it does not matter if I am willing once the auction started. But, it is the choice I made knowing the risks. It is still a learning curve.

What's your seller's name on e-bay?

[dgerwin11]

Seller name is cobcobbler, but that does not seem to work. The listing is DGE BRIAR NOSEWARMER.

[wmolaw]

Seller name is cobcobbler, but that does not seem to work. The listing is DGE BRIAR NOSEWARMER.

Got it, thanks. Good looking pipe, you should post here, get some feedback, always helps. Especially true if you make regular shapes.

[dgerwin11]

I think I will post the next one here. It is one I am keeping for myself due to carelessness with the bandsaw. The thing is, I pretty much know the mistakes I am making. My biggest problem is how to not make them. And I am selective about the advice I take. Most advice that is worth anything is based on what works for you. What works for Sas is different from what works for Rad is different from what works for Kurt. If I try listening to all of them I will end up with SRK pipe, not a DGE pipe.

[d.huber]

You haven't already seen enough pictures of ugly pipes by novices? I will post some when I get to the point that it does not take half a page to give all the advice it would provoke.

Had a look at the listing and I think it would be wise to post photos of your pipes here. The guys on this forum can help you get better fast by helping you see the things that you cannot and by providing valuable tips to shaping, engineering, and finishing.

99% of the information that I use on a daily basis was gleaned from conversations, old threads, and individuals on this forum.

The pipe you're selling isn't bad. There is no such thing as bad or good in pipemaking. There is only what works and what doesn't work. That pipe you're selling doesn't work for a lot of reasons. If you want to learn what does work, give yourself a shortcut and start posting here.

I think I will post the next one here. It is one I am keeping for myself due to carelessness with the bandsaw. The thing is, I pretty much know the mistakes I am making. My biggest problem is how to not make them. And I am selective about the advice I take. Most advice that is worth anything is based on what works for you. What works for Sas is different from what works for Rad is different from what works for Kurt. If I try listening to all of them I will end up with SRK pipe, not a DGE pipe.

Yes and no. You've got to learn the rules before you can start breaking them. Filter the tips that come your way, but if someone with experience offers you advice, listen.

Think of this forum like grad school and people like Sas, Kurt, and Rad like professors. They may not agree on everything and may have found different ways to achieve results, but all of their knowledge and advice is valuable. Be a sponge for information, then apply it to your own work. In time, your own style will emerge.

[wmolaw]

I think I will post the next one here. It is one I am keeping for myself due to carelessness with the bandsaw. The thing is, I pretty much know the mistakes I am making. My biggest problem is how to not make them. And I am selective about the advice I take. Most advice that is worth anything is based on what works for you. What works for Sas is different from what works for Rad is different from what works for Kurt. If I try listening to all of them I will end up with SRK pipe, not a DGE pipe.

Well, if you intend on making certain shapes, then I would suggest that listening to them is more than worthwhile. Being a long time smoker and pipe purchaser, there is no doubt but that if you want a billiard shape there are certain lines one looks for and if they are not there, you really don't consider that pipe, period.

Same with all shapes that have some required elements. Folks look for certain lines, elements.

If you make freehand pipes, no discernible shape, then that's another matter. Although, all of the wonderful freehand carvers also know how to make a hell of a billiard.

Just my take, of course.