What's the Difference?

[Cory]

What makes the difference between a $100 pipe, a $200 pipe, and a $400 pipe?

No, this is not the set up to a joke with a cheesy punch line; it is a serious question. How do I take my work to the next level? What are things I should be focusing on?

[Ocelot55]

This is a tricky topic that has been covered before at some length.

As far as what I have observed, and this may be a cop out answer, the value of a pipe is determined by what the market will bear, supply and demand, and marketing. Dunhill pipes are a perfect example of marketing genious for a pipe that is really not that spectacular.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, PRICING SUCKS!!!! I'm doing this for the thrill of making pipes, not necessarily selling them.

[d.huber]

I broke down my opinions on a collector's forum not long ago, so I thought I'd paste that info here.

$35 to $70: Probably poorly drilled, will gurgle, won't pass a pipe cleaner, tight draw, crappy fit/finish, tastes poor to ok.
$75 to $175: Well drilled, less likely to gurgle, much more likely to pass a pipe cleaner, much better draw, fit/finish are acceptable to very good, tastes good. (exception for newby artisans, many of whom fall into this price range but may very well be creating work worth the next tier up)
$180 to $350: Precision drilling, gurgling would be a disappointment, passes a pipe cleaner with ease, good draw, fit and finish are great, tastes excellent. If a pipe in this price range doesn't meet any of these criteria, it doesn't belong in this price category, IMO.
$400 to $750: Precision drilling, no gurgle, passes a pipe cleaner perfectly, excellent draw, fit and finish are near perfect, the taste is mesmerizing. If a pipe in this price range doesn't meet any of these criteria, it doesn't belong in this price category, IMO.
$800+: Perfect drilling, no gurgle, passes a pipe cleaner perfectly, perfect draw, fit and finish are perfect, the taste is life altering. If a pipe in this price range doesn't meet any of these criteria, it doesn't belong in this price category, IMO.

That being said, there are a lot of pipes that break this mold(for better or worse), but I'd say the majority fall into this categorization. For example, I still have two Bjarne, one Savinelli, and a Brebbia factory pipe that all smoke way beyond their price point. I've also owned a pipe in the $180 to $350 range that smoked well below its price point. However, I've purchased close to 15 artisan pipes in the $180 to $350 range and only had one not fit the criteria listed above. I've purchase over 50 factory pipes since I've been collecting, I only have 4 left, and won't be purchasing more. I've purchased two at the absolute bottom of the $400 to $750 range and have noticed a substantial difference in every way. The proof is in the pudding.

[Sasquatch]

There's lots of ways to chew this up. There's no specific, objective "This is a 100 dollar pipe" type of analysis. Huber's post is probably right to a point - I don't think an 800 dollar pipe smokes any different than a 200 dollar one. (EDIT okay maybe a 300 dollar one)

Part of it is branding and history - I can make a perfect billiard, put it in a silk sock, put it in a lovely little box, and it's still not a Dunhill, and the Dunhill guys would pay more for a Dunhill made by... who knows who, who knows where.... but it's a dunhill (whatever that ACTUALLY means for any given pipe).

For any given definition of success, those of us who have some success mostly do it by offering a consistently good product at a price that is market-fair. There's lots of ways to do this, but it all comes down in the end to making pipes that people want to buy, and after the buy them, pipes that people want to keep and smoke. This means making pipes that look good, feel good, and smoke good.

I think what has to happen is that you have to understand what makes the classic pipes classic, understand their spare utility, their grace and dignity, their propriety. You have to understand what makes a high-grade freehand a high-grade freehand - the flowing curves, the intensity of the composition, the gesture of the pipe and the mastery of the carver. (Why is the stem THAT long and not a half inch longer? = figure this stuff out)

Once you start to grip these ideas and SEE well cut pipes versus poorly cut pipes, you can then move forward in your own carving and actually ATTEMPT well cut pipes. It's hard. Much easier to make fat-ass Italian-looking Castello-ish pipes than Dunhill type shapes - trust me! Even easier to make random lumps of "Danish Freehand".

My advice is to attempt those classic English pipes. Learn to make a straight billiard, a good looking dublin, make a bent billiard and figure out where the shank goes, where the lowest part of the pipe is, what the basic proportions should be. Once you get this stuff dialled in on these pipes, any other types of pipes you cut will look that much better. Study and copy, study and copy. And THEN... suddenly you'll find pipes come out of your hands that look really good, and people will want to buy them. It's just about that simple.

[d.huber]

Huber's post is probably right to a point - I don't think an 800 dollar pipe smokes any different than a 200 dollar one.

Great post, Todd, but I have to disagree with this assertion. I'm speaking as a collector who seeks out perfection in what he spends his money on and as an artist who is in pursuit of perfection in everything he does (whether or not he achieves it). I'm also speaking from a point of relative ignorance about pipe making, so please take my thoughts for what they are.

Even if I'm wrong, and I very well may be, I think it's important to recognize that someone willing to spend $400+ on a pipe wants to believe that the pipe they're buying is going to be worlds better than a Savinelli Signature that they picked up for $225. Someone buying a $1200+ pipe wants to believe that they are buying perfection in all ways. Otherwise, they sure as hell wouldn't drop the coin.

A good friend of mine and avid collector for nearly 40 years has said to me more than once, "David, you've got to try at least one high end [Chonowitsch, Ivarsson, Bang, Knudsen, etc.] before you die. Find a way to afford it. It will change your life." This comes from a man whose entire house is dedicated to pipes and tobacco, who owns well over 1,000 pipes and a good chunk of them fall into the high end category.

While I cannot say if he is right, I think it's important to acknowledge the expectations of the collector in this conversation. If you want your pipes to carry higher price tags, this has to be acknowledged, IMO.

[wdteipen]

There's another factor that perplexes me the most and it comes into play with Dunhill pipes. There are some who will buy a more expensive pipe mostly because it's expensive and they can. It doesn't have as much to do about perfection at all. It's a sign of status and success. Dunhill has done a good job marketing a decent but not perfect pipe as a luxury item.

[Sasquatch]

That's bang on Wayne. Total snob appeal, and that's their gig. Good on 'em I guess. Smart.

David, I didn't mean to imply that smoking a 1000 dollar pipe is identical to smoking a Kaywoodie. But most people will agree that the difference is not so much that the smoke coming out the end of the Bang is better than the smoke coming out the Kaywoodie, it's that the Bang is so much nicer in the teeth, so much nicer in the hand, and behaves better - no gurgle, no bullshit.

I've got a Peterson that I swear to God is the best pipe I'll probably ever own in terms of smoking - stays lit if you put it in your pocket for 10 minutes, I'm not kidding. Tastes great, never gurgles. But the stem is a big thick P-lip and that's a limiting factor on how much a guy enjoys the pipe. If you bagged up a bunch of pipe smoke, I couldn't tell you "That's from my Peterson" as opposed to my Savinelli, just from the smoke, I don't think.

But I think we're talking about pipe behavior, how good a pipe can operate, rather than how the tobacco tastes. The stem on my 200 dollar Mastro de Paja is WAY nicer than the stem on any Kaywoodie. Cut far better. And I've had a Balleby in my hands that was finer than the Mastro by 100%. As a pipemaker, I was really impressed by how fine the shaping was, how close the tolerances were on the Balleby, but my overally impression was not one of "Oh my God THAT'S a pipe." Rather, I thought, "I guess if I liked this style of pipe I would make them more like this."

But there is no magic tenon, no secret Danish slotting tool (though I'd buy a SLÖTTINGER without a second thought if it existed, just cuz that sounds so cool). They make pipes from briar and rubber, and line up all the holes. In fact I think they make 'em too small and drill 'em too tight for best results - I'd rather have a Peterson house pipe than a little Danish pipe for my purposes - I want a big bowl and a stem I'm not going to crush in 4 smokes. Pretty often I do stupid shit like chopping wood with a pipe in my mouth. Pipes have to survive around me.

Did you notice on SF there was a "magic pipe" thread, and the name that came up over and over and over in that thread was Rad Davis? Lots of these guys have Castellos and Dunhills and Bangs and Chons and whatevers, but when it comes to outright smoking action, little Radley kicks the shit out of everybody because he knows what he's doing.

[Cory]

Thanks for taking the time to post. This is really helping me 'figure it out'. I think in my mind, just because my holes line up every time now, and my stems fit pretty well; I'm at the 'What now...' stage.

What I have gathered is that there is more to drilling a nice pipe than just drilling holes that match up and are straight; you now need to take into account geometry, high tolerances in where chamber/air hole meet, mortise/tenon tolerances, etc? But now that I know this, is there a source for geometry/physics of a perfect/ideal pipe. What should I be aiming for? Pretty much all of the pipes I drill now are lined up dead center and the air hole comes in at the bottom of the chamber. What is the next step?

Also, there is more to a stem than cutting some delrin and sticking it in there and calling it a day. Is it time for hand cut stems? Once I start those, what is the 'ideal' stem?

Lastly, there is more to shaping a stummel than looking at your pipe and being able to say "Sure, that looks like a 'insert style here'". Geometry, flow, grain, etc can all be refined.

Am I at least on the right track?

[scotties22]

All burning questions for me as well. Grant it I am far behind Cory's abilities, but I have been thinking along the same lines. What is the proper stem length for a certain bowl height? Ratios, I am having problems with the ratios. Making my own stems scares me a little (not sure why, it's just a piece of plastic or acrylic) so I have been using blanks with delrin tenons. This is where Yoda would say something about patience

[Sasquatch]

Yeah. Where's the rulebook, right?

Well, there isn't one. It's the weirdest thing. On one hand, there's no rules. You can find an example of a good looking, well made pipe that defies or adheres to whatever you demand. On the other hand, some pipes just don't look as good as others - the proportions aren't as good, the shaping not as "right".

I think one of the important if a little opaque concepts that I now believe is that any particular pipe has a "right" shape. This depends on all the aesthetic factors of the pipe - stem length, diameter, bowl size and shape, etc. They all affect one another, but each pipe has a "best" form, and that's what you try to seek. This starts out when you learn to look at a pipe and say "what does this pipe look like with the stem a 1/2" shorter?" it moves to "what does this pipe look like if I cut the shank a little more sharply away from the bowl" and goes on and on, to where you are asking about ratios of bowl thickness to apparent chamber aperture vs button size, I mean... there's a lot to look at. 500 little things to make a pipe "right". You start out doing 2 or 3 (get a nice shank/stem joint, get the bowl/shank junction to look nice, get a good finish) and you end up trying to nail about 400 little tiny details. Just how perfect IS that slot you just cut?

As you go, you learn. You learn what to look for, learn to balance your shaping. Learn what a pipe is going to look like.

Just quick here - here's two similar pipes, both bent calabash/dublin sort of shapes.

Here's an Ashton, typical English pipe in many ways, spare, lean. And.... a bent pipe with what amounts to a straight shank attached at an angle - shank cut on a lathe in other words, and the shape completed. I would argue that the stem would look better about a 1/2" shorter on this pipe.



Here's a Sasquatch, typical Sasquatch, fat shank, big and hairy, no straight section - the shank did not come off the lathe so there's more curve all the way, a much more relaxed feel to the pipe.



My pipe is more Italian in influence, a little heavier-set, a little bigger all the way through, actually. A little more "hand" and a little less "machine" in the shaping.

Both these pipes could probably be improved with little tweaks, but the point I'm tryng to make is that they are similar but not identical, and both were taken to logical ends in shaping and proportion. In a very real sense, one is not "better" than the other - they just are differently cut, and yet very similar pipes.

These are the decisions a guy makes - am I going to cut this fat, and if I do, what does it do to the rest of the pipe? Am I going to round this over or leave it flat, am I going to have a ring here, how big should that be? Blah blah blah.

Each time you make a pipe, you learn something about how pipes go together - looking at your last bent billiard, Cory, all of a sudden now you see it rather differently than you did when you were shaping. Go make another. And another.

[RadDavis]

I think it's important to recognize that someone willing to spend $400+ on a pipe wants to believe that the pipe they're buying is going to be worlds better than a Savinelli Signature that they picked up for $225. Someone buying a $1200+ pipe wants to believe that they are buying perfection in all ways. Otherwise, they sure as hell wouldn't drop the coin.

What's key here is that "they want to believe".

Most anyone who can drill a pipe properly and make a proper stem can make a pipe that will smoke as well as most any other pipe. The differences come with the flow/beauty of the shape, grain/blast, hand feel, mouth comfort, and fit & finish. They look better and feel better to the smoker, so those are the pipes they keep reaching for.

They're just more fun to smoke and look at, and people are willing to pay a higher price for those things. Those pipes make them feel good.

Then there are the 5% of pipes that are the "magic pipes" that Fred Hanna often refers to, where everything is perfect every time. The brand/maker/price has nothing to do with these. That's more to do with voodoo.

Rad

[d.huber]

Todd,

Excellent points, my man. Excellent points. I think you are very right about all the extras. Smoke is smoke, but when the overall experience is enhanced, the smoker believes his experience is better and because of that, it is.

What's key here is that "they want to believe".

DING DING DING! Now even though I'm in the "want to believe" camp, I'll readily admit that this effect may entirely be one of the mind.

Edit: In short, Todd and Rad are right.

[d.huber]

So maybe the question here should be, "How do I make people believe my pipes are magic?"

[Sasquatch]

Let me answer by analogy.

Do you know how to catch a bird, Huber? It's quite easy - ask any old man. All you have to do is shake a little salt on their tail feathers.

[Sasquatch]

Wow I hate to self-gloss but that was the post of the month.

[d.huber]

Let me answer by analogy.

Do you know how to catch a bird, Huber? It's quite easy - ask any old man. All you have to do is shake a little salt on their tail feathers.

So I should salt my buttons?

[RadDavis]

So maybe the question here should be, "How do I make people believe my pipes are magic?"

Easy. Make people want to smoke them.

Rad

[wdteipen]

So maybe the question here should be, "How do I make people believe my pipes are magic?"

I'd like to know the answer to that one too.

[d.huber]

So maybe the question here should be, "How do I make people believe my pipes are magic?"

Easy. Make people want to smoke them.

Rad

Lol! Easier said than done. I suppose that's why we're all here, huh? To figure out how to do that.

[d.huber]

So maybe the question here should be, "How do I make people believe my pipes are magic?"

I'd like to know the answer to that one too.

I'm gonna try salting my buttons.