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Just wondering why more pipemakers don't sell flawed pipes. Especially high grade makers. Will it hurt their reputation? Do they find a way to work around flaws? Is it acceptable to sell flawed pipes at a heavy discount?

Flawed how?

How much do you want to pay for it? The time invested in finishing a pipe you know is not up to standards is wasted time if you could be applying the time into a pipe that is actually going to sell for your regular rate.

I'll give you an example.

I cut a pipe a few months ago, really nice looking piece of wood, but at the end of the day, I got unlucky with a couple significant fissures in the block. Rusticateable, yeah, but really, not a pipe I'm gonna send out the door as a "first". The fissures need some epoxy/dust fill. So.... I got it about 2/3 done, it's got a stem sorta cut but not finished, etc. And it sits on the shelf. Not quite bad enough to outright throw out, but fact is, I have other pipes that need cutting, other orders to fill.

Then I get an email from a guy who has a "first" from me, and he says "Hey, have you got a 2nd-run bent pipe, a reject that I can smoke in my truck as a backup to the other pipe you made me?" You know what, it turns out I do. So, I tell him what I have, he accepts it, so I go and finish the pipe. Stem still has to be decently finished, so there's an hour, rusticate, stain, polish, etc, nother hour or so. So I've got ALMOST the same amount of time in this pipe as I would have in a "regular" BST pipe.

What do I charge this guy? I already told him it's a reject. And he wants a cheap pipe that's better than a cheap pipe. So what's the right number? Let's say it's a hundred bucks. This guy just bought a rusticated reject and paid more for it than he would have paid for a new Savinelli. And I've spent maybe 5 hours on a pipe that I sold for 100 bucks. It's better than not selling it, I guess, but just barely. So it isn't time well spent for me, and it's still reasonably expensive for the client. So who is this good for again?

I think that's the cut and dried version. Economically, it just doesn't make sense. The psychological version is that any pipe I put out of my shop for money should be as good a pipe as I can make. No point in this endeavour otherwise.

I don't want a line of seconds with my name on it. "Todd makes great pipes." That's all. Not "Todd makes great pipes and if you don't really want to pay for one maybe ask him if he's got one of his seconds floating around, they're pretty good and pretty cheap, and that way you still get a handcut stem and a nice shine because he's too anal to sell anything but the best, and you don't even have to pay him for it!"

Fuck that!

Sasquatch wrote:Flawed how?

How much do you want to pay for it? The time invested in finishing a pipe you know is not up to standards is wasted time if you could be applying the time into a pipe that is actually going to sell for your regular rate.

I'll give you an example.

I cut a pipe a few months ago, really nice looking piece of wood, but at the end of the day, I got unlucky with a couple significant fissures in the block. Rusticateable, yeah, but really, not a pipe I'm gonna send out the door as a "first". The fissures need some epoxy/dust fill. So.... I got it about 2/3 done, it's got a stem sorta cut but not finished, etc. And it sits on the shelf. Not quite bad enough to outright throw out, but fact is, I have other pipes that need cutting, other orders to fill.

Then I get an email from a guy who has a "first" from me, and he says "Hey, have you got a 2nd-run bent pipe, a reject that I can smoke in my truck as a backup to the other pipe you made me?" You know what, it turns out I do. So, I tell him what I have, he accepts it, so I go and finish the pipe. Stem still has to be decently finished, so there's an hour, rusticate, stain, polish, etc, nother hour or so. So I've got ALMOST the same amount of time in this pipe as I would have in a "regular" BST pipe.

What do I charge this guy? I already told him it's a reject. And he wants a cheap pipe that's better than a cheap pipe. So what's the right number? Let's say it's a hundred bucks. This guy just bought a rusticated reject and paid more for it than he would have paid for a new Savinelli. And I've spent maybe 5 hours on a pipe that I sold for 100 bucks. It's better than not selling it, I guess, but just barely. So it isn't time well spent for me, and it's still reasonably expensive for the client. So who is this good for again?

I think that's the cut and dried version. Economically, it just doesn't make sense. The psychological version is that any pipe I put out of my shop for money should be as good a pipe as I can make. No point in this endeavour otherwise.

I don't want a line of seconds with my name on it. "Todd makes great pipes." That's all. Not "Todd makes great pipes and if you don't really want to pay for one maybe ask him if he's got one of his seconds floating around, they're pretty good and pretty cheap, and that way you still get a handcut stem and a nice shine because he's too anal to sell anything but the best, and you don't even have to pay him for it!"

Fuck that!

Nice rant !

I only sell rejects that would still be worth the time in finishing them up. So far that has been 2 in my whole time pipe making. Most of the rest either get scrapped, smoked myself or given away to friends where the time spent on them is less important than the act of giving the pipe.

Alden wrote: Nice rant !

I offer a detailed, thoughtful response, and get nothing but abuse.


Noted for future dealings.

Sas has a great way of putting things, doesn't he?

I agree with both he and Chris on this one. This early in my pipmaking career it still makes sense for me to finish rejects because, frankly I need the practice. I've sold about 5 or six rejects. Some were drilled a little off, some had bad fissures (typically more mechanical flaws than cosmetic), but I learned something from each one. When I do sell these, all I do is get my materials cost back. Some I smoke and others I give to friends. I don't feel bad about selling a reject to someone, and they're usually thrilled to get them at a good price. I mean, I know mine will smoke better than half of all the manufactured pipes out there regardless if the drilling is slightly off.

That said, when I reach a point in my career that I am better known and am churning out top dollar top quality stuff there really is no point, as Sas was saying, to finish the rejects. By that time there is little to learn from them.

This is just my opinion, but I'm happy to see that others think this way too.

Sasquatch wrote:

Alden wrote: Nice rant !

I offer a detailed, thoughtful response, and get nothing but abuse.


Noted for future dealings.

I meant that in a good way.. was well thought out, with good observations.... but you want to tell me that a 6 paragraph dissertation ending with "Fuck That!" isn't a rant ??



Fuck That !!

Nobody WANTS to make a "second". Nobody has TIME to make a "second". By the time a pipe maker has reached a certain point, a "second" is something that is essentially unsellable for reasons Sas detailed. Making a "second", takes too much time, can't be sold for a good enough price to be worth it, and STILL costs too damn much.

Most pipe makers will occasionally make a "reject", which is a lot different. These end up in the grill as fuel, given away to friends and family, or smoked by the maker. It is exceedingly rare that one of these would get sold.

I sell all my rejects to Nate.

My wife takes all my rejects and sells them to rich porn stars. She's been silent about the intended use though, and I've implemented a policy whereby I do not inquire and she does not volunteer information....

Sorry. Never thought about it from that standpoint. I don't do this for a living, haven't even sold a pipe. Just curious. Now I have my answer.

KurtHuhn wrote:My wife takes all my rejects and sells them to rich porn stars. She's been silent about the intended use though, and I've implemented a policy whereby I do not inquire and she does not volunteer information....

Don't ask don't tell? It's safe to say those rejects are winding up someone's butt.

Now there's an image!

UberHuberMan wrote:

KurtHuhn wrote:My wife takes all my rejects and sells them to rich porn stars. She's been silent about the intended use though, and I've implemented a policy whereby I do not inquire and she does not volunteer information....

Don't ask don't tell? It's safe to say those rejects are winding up someone's butt.

Now there's an image!

Dammit !! You just ruined a good thing Kurt had going. But it does explain some of Sasquatchs comments.

Sasquatch wrote: "Five years he kept that pipe: up his ass....")


And I'm very handsome.

Also, a bit of trivia;
If you look up Sasquatchs posts, then search those results for the word "ass", you will find 32 results.

buster wrote:Sorry. Never thought about it from that standpoint. I don't do this for a living, haven't even sold a pipe. Just curious. Now I have my answer.

Boy, I am glad you got your answer. This post has devolved towards the basest debauchery.

Alden wrote: This post has devolved towards the basest debauchery.

Kurt Huhn, bringing conversations to a screeching halt since 1971....

KurtHuhn wrote:

Alden wrote: This post has devolved towards the basest debauchery.

Kurt Huhn, bringing conversations to a screeching halt since 1971....

Since you were born? Did you enter the delivery room and everything got awkward?

Apparently the giant German midwife ran screaming from the room. Not sure what was up...

KurtHuhn wrote:...Most pipe makers will occasionally make a "reject", which is a lot different. These end up ... given away to friends...

If any of you real pipe makers are taking friend resumes, I can PM or email!

Sasquatch wrote:I sell all my rejects to Nate.

He does, how do you think I have all these pipes to sell? You think I make them?! It is to laugh.

KurtHuhn wrote:

Alden wrote: This post has devolved towards the basest debauchery.

Kurt Huhn, bringing conversations to a screeching halt since 1971....

Sweet! Welcome to the brotherhood. I have that gift as well.