Selecting a lathe- help

[The Smoking Yeti]

Hey all!

I finally have some substantialish money to put towards a lathe(somewhere around 1500- maybe a bit more if I must) and I'm wondering which metal lathe to get- I'd hate to invest money in something I'll regret, so really I need help selecting a lathe for use with stem work, free shaping/drilling and anything else pipey you can think of. Please put all your affordable lathe fantasies/ experiences on the table, I need help!

Cheers!

Micah

[wdteipen]

I'd go with the Jet 920 for a few hundred more.

[The Smoking Yeti]

If I may ask- why would you go with the Jet 920?

[wdteipen]

Price to quality ratio. Quite a few other professional pipemakers use the Jet 920. At that price range, your other option is to buy a used old lathe but they usually require a bigger investment to get running right. YMMV.

[sethile]

The JET is a much better machine than the other Chinese 9x20s, and as Wayne mentions, it has been used very happily and successfully by many excellent pipe makers. You might luck into one used for a little less, and occasionally a new one can be had for less. I think Tyler ended up with a great deal on one a couple of months ago.

I'm glad to have a larger lathe now (A PM 1236), but it was about twice as much at the JET 9x20. I earned it by struggling with a Harbor Freight 9x20 for a few years, which has a way of making a guy want to overshoot his next lathe purchase

[Growley]

I've been nothing but extremely happy with my Jet 920. ...But I have nothing to compare it with. It's the only lathe I've ever used. Practically speaking though, I can't see why you'd need anything much different or better.

My two cents....


Brian.

[OregonCustom]

From my local tool suppliers web site: Jet 920 - Lathe w/ Free Stand: 321376 Price: $1599.00 (Marked down to $1949.00... thats not a typo) or I can buy the one on the showroom floor for $2300.00 .....really! Shop around!

[Sasquatch]

I'd buy a Jet mini and 90 cases of beer.

[baweaverpipes]

Like Mr. Thile, I have a PM 1236 and have been extremely pleased. I use my Grizzly 9x20 for Delrin tenons and other minor tasks. The balance is done on the PM1236. It's like driving a Mercedes versus a Yugo, it's that dramatic.
BAW

[oklahoma red]

Bruce/Scott/et al:
Would it be a safe assumption that the PM-1127-VF is on the same level of quality as the 12 x 36? The price is in the neighborhood of the Jet. The question to be answered by contacting PM is how long a wait to get one?
Chas.

[sethile]

Bruce/Scott/et al:
Would it be a safe assumption that the PM-1127-VF is on the same level of quality as the 12 x 36? The price is in the neighborhood of the Jet. The question to be answered by contacting PM is how long a wait to get one?
Chas.

It's a very different tool, but they're both good options. I used both the 1127-VF, and the 1236 and decided for me it was well worth the extra money to go with the 1236. The 1236 is nearly twice as heavy and built much more like a professional machine shop lathe. I would say the 1127 is more like an advanced hobby lathe. The build quality is similar, with both comparing to the JET 9x20 in over all quality and finish. These are still a Chinese, but pretty decent. Expect to do a lot of clean up and a few mods. Expect to replacing soft metal screws and bolts here and there.

The advantages of the 1236 over the 1127-VF is that it is much more rigid. It also has the D1-4 camlock chuck mount, which makes it a lot more flexible in terms of chucks. And of course it is a gear head lathe versus the variable speed. There is a thread on the bluemachining forum about converting the 1127 to a different mount system, which sounds really complex and a bit risky. That forum is a good read if your considering a PM lathe. I'm very glad to have the standard D1-4 mount on mine. The pipe makers I know with 1127-VF are just chucking custom pipe chucks into the chuck that comes mounted on it. That seems to work fine, but it's a whole lot of spinning metal too. I would worry about extra spindle bearing ware over time. The variable speed of the 1127 is convenient, but the one I used seemed under powered, or maybe it was just not set up optimally. It bogged down when I really pressed into it when chamber drilling and it took a while to settle into the new speed after an adjustment. I also like the extra capacity of the 1236 for certain procedures, especially the swing over the cross slide. In short, I'm supper happy with my choice!

In terms of the wait. My understanding is that is supposed to be getting better, but I would say it is certainly an issue. Talk with Matt to try to get as good an estimate as you can, and then just be patient if it ends up taking a little longer. For me it was well worth the wait (7 months), but I had my old 9x20 to get me by.

[caskwith]

Stop making me jealous with your big lathes!

[SimeonTurner]

I'm happy with my PM 1127. The chuck is kinda funky, but once used to it, it's no big deal.

[oklahoma red]

I'm happy with my PM 1127. The chuck is kinda funky, but once used to it, it's no big deal.

How long did it take you to receive it? How is the chuck attached on this model?
Chas.

[SimeonTurner]

It took forever. Almost 7 months. The chuck is a weird German mount that bolts on. I had a custom chuck already, and just had it retrofitted to work.

[oklahoma red]

It took forever. Almost 7 months. The chuck is a weird German mount that bolts on. I had a custom chuck already, and just had it retrofitted to work.

I have a Ken Lamb chuck that in turn is held by either a three or 4 jaw chuck. Do the chucks that come with the lathe run pretty true or do you never put them on now that you've adapted your briar chuck?
You are in Colorado are you not? My son lives in Pueblo West.
Chas.

[SimeonTurner]

It took forever. Almost 7 months. The chuck is a weird German mount that bolts on. I had a custom chuck already, and just had it retrofitted to work.

I have a Ken Lamb chuck that in turn is held by either a three or 4 jaw chuck. Do the chucks that come with the lathe run pretty true or do you never put them on now that you've adapted your briar chuck?
You are in Colorado are you not? My son lives in Pueblo West.
Chas.

I've had no complaints about the chucks. The 4 jaw gets used regularly for stems.

Yea, I'm in Denver.

[Skip]

This lathe choosing thing is not easy.
I have a American made antique lathe that works well but even though it is reconditioned is still a tad sloppy. I have been using it for at least 13 years. After using it for about 2 years I wanted to try something not so old. I made a mistake of buying a Smithy. What a piece of crap. This new lathe would make a fine boat anchor.
I read with interest the discussion about the Jett 9x20 in this thread. I am ready to buy a new one and thought that I would look into it. I went to Amazon.com and saw a review that made it sound like my Smithy. Now this is only one guys opinion but I did buy a Jett bandsaw that was so bad I traded it back in for a large serious Jett and have never had any more problems.
I read about the issues with the PM lathes. I do not care for the way they were described here at all. I do not care where they were made, I think that no one should drop that much change on them and have to modify or replace any thing even soft metal screws. You can go to E-Bay and find enough parts to build your own South Bend from scratch. I never saw a listing for parts for a PM.
I have tried to buy several South Bend lathes on E-Bay to no avail. They do not want to tell you what the reserve is and even though I had the high bid the auction ended with out selling the item. I only bid on lathes that are in reasonable driving distance from here in Alabama. Almost all of the ones I find are up north and half of those are for local pick up only.

The other problem with the modern Chinese lathes is that they have too many bells and whistles. The only thing I want to do is make pipes. I do not need to turn threads or have some thing to steady my work.

I guess I will wait until a vintage model shows up and go buy the darned thing.

[sethile]

Hello Skip,

You're right. Choosing a lathe is not at all easy... And I relate to everything you've said in terms of the Chinese lathes versus old american iron. My PM 1236 lathe is totally overkill for pipes in terms of machining features, and it is undeniably Chinese, but it's not a boat anchor. My Harbor Freight 9x20 is a boat anchor and a good example of way the Chinese lathes have such a terrible reputation. After years of tweaking it around, it's usable, but still a frustration. Like Bruce's Grizzly it's mainly used to prep Delrin tenons these days. By contrast, the PM1236 is a real pleasure to use, and I have not had any issues at all beyond the expected clean up and break in procedures. BTW, Matt at Quality Machine stocks a good inventory of parts for these, and is reportedly very quick to respond to warranty or other issues. Thankfully, I haven't had any.

I still think finding a great deal on a South Bend that happened to be in perfect shape would have been my first choice, but I was never in the right place at the right time, and it sounds like the chances of getting one that was not beat to death are slim and nil. Buying one sight unseen on eBay does not sound like a great option unless you're looking for a project. I gather you're pretty likely to end up with an American boat anchor instead of a Chinese one, or at best a restoration project. Not being a lathe expert, I was worried I would miss something even if I got a chance to carefully inspect one before buying. Then there was shipping or hauling hassles to work through. What finally clinched my decision was using Bruce and Todd's PM lathes, and a few things Jack Howell has said about the process of restoring older lathes, and that he himself was looking at other options. I think he ended up with an older Taiwanese made JET 1236 or maybe it was a 13x or 14x, which I gather are a step up from the Chinese made ones.

For anyone interested in an education on older lathes you might check out a few YouTube videos by a guys that goes by Tubalcain, a retired shop teacher. I've learned a lot from this guys videos!

Buying a Lathe in three parts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MqYOgtQGdA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYni5QP0 ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCv1xbk8 ... ure=relmfu

Older Southbend he purchased after the above videos where made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIcVBcWI ... AAAAAAABAA

With pipe making we are not working to anything like the close tolerances many machining operations require, but we still benefit from tools that are capable of them.

[sethile]

I should have mentioned I've also used Steve Morrisette's JET 9x20, and it was a very nice tool. A pleasure to use. I think it had been tricked out a little, but my understanding is these are all nice machines after the initial clean up. I think Brad Pohlmann may have helped Steve set it up originally. One might contact them about the process if you're thinking of pulling the trigger on one.

BTW, if you played your cards right a trip to Nashville might yield a person a chance to try several of these options that are all set up for pipe making. Made all the difference to me in my decision making. And you'd very likely learn some things and have a blast with some great pipe makers in the process.