Japanese Hand Tools

[Alden]

Any members here have experience with Japanese Handsaws, Chisels and Planers ?
I just ended up with 10 hand made Saws, about a dozen Chisels and a few Planers, an Axe and an Adze.
This is not necessarily pipe related, just looking for anyone who has used the tools. There is a certain Zen that comes with using them (or so I'm told) and apparently it takes the better part of 2 or 3 lifetimes to master the art.
The only pipe related use I can see is making Pipe Racks and other furniture using Japanese Joinery.
Any thoughts ideas comments or references on the tools or joinery would be appreciated.
Seems like some of you guys with woodworking backgrounds could really appreciate the spirit of this style of wood work.

[Sasquatch]

Japanese hand tools are garbage, and you should quickly distance yourself from them. I live pretty far from you, as a matter of fact, and I have a "safe box" JUST FOR such tools.

So, uh, yeah. Better send them my way.




Listen, if you got real Japanese tools and not a knockoff, you are going to be in heaven, but only once you figure out how the hell they work. The biggest single difference in method is that a lot of Japanese tools cut on the pull whereas European-background stuff cuts on the push (saws and planes are the main here). The chisels are the best in the world, I shit you not. They are designed as a metal sandwich, with a layer of "soft" (read "tough") metal on either side of the cutting edge, which is razor thin and razor sharp. I keep ONE japanese chisel with my travelling tools, and I only use it for "proper" cutting, not junky shit like OSB. It goes through oak like butter. Ori Nomi Baby.

The small saws are indespensible onsite and in the shop - they cut so clean and so accurate. I very often do not bother to plug in a power tool if I'm only making a half dozen cuts - just grab a dozuki and go to town.

Get a book, learn to use them, learn how to sharpen/maintain them. Because they are super, super tools, if a little funny to get used to. The steel is great, they feel great, and they do a wicked job. Far superior to any other tools imo. (not humble).

[Alden]

Thanks for your unhumbled opinion Sas, I wondered if you would respond since you make a living in Carpentry.
Yes, they are the real deal. Hand made by Japanese dudes whose names alone will take me years to master.
The guy I got them from spent about 5 hours having me cut tenons and dovetails and sharpening the chisels before he said I could have them.
Thats the kicker. I bought a garage full of tools from him, but the Japanese tools were free.... He tells me he could never sell something that has a soul, and gives them to me on condition that I never sell them either.
I suppose its my job to learn everything I can about them now, 3 books in the mail.
I'm heading back over today for the second load, and to finish cleaning the garage for him.
I dont know what I'm more excited about, the tools or the wood.
Theres probably literally 2,000+ lbs of exotic wood. Mahogany, ebony, koa, zebrawood, curly maple, pink ivory, ziricote, cocobolo, alaskan yellow cedar, texas ebony, peruvian walnut, paulownia and a 4" thick cedar crotch big enough to make a coffee table. Plus barrels full of scraps.
Personally, I feel like I won the lottery

[billiard]

Hi Edward,

For me this is a very well timed post. About a month ago I asked on here if anyone made pipes sans-power tools and I have been transitioning myself to that approach ever since, slowly dropping one power tool at a time on the way. I have been using a few tools passed down from family, so basically early American saws and chisels. However I recently added 2 Japanese files and I just love them as they cut so quickly... they work differently than my 'Mercun files and it took me a bit to get it figured.

I think different approaches lend themselves to different people. For me personally, although it is slower I enjoy it a lot more and I think my pipes are coming out better this way. That may simply be because I am still a beginner and learning so my pipes should be coming out better as I go, but I think I see improvements due to the methodology.

Cheers,
Bill

[caskwith]

Sounds awesome!

What are the Japanese files you speak of Bill?

[billiard]

Sounds awesome!

What are the Japanese files you speak of Bill?

Chris,

Please keep in mind I have no idea at all if the ones I am using are the good stuff Sas referenced or the junk stuff. Either way they are about a million times better than the couple files I have been using, that for the past 50+ years have been used as everything from hammers through pry bars

I got a couple of the Iwasaki Japanese Files from WoodCraft here: http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2080472 ... Files.aspx


Sure sounds like Edward has done really well with his buy. Congrats Edward!

[Sasquatch]

Wow Edward, that's like a dream come true. That's just crazy.

I think if you get to know those tools, you'll reach for them far more often than their Stanley counter parts. People tend to think that hand tools are shitty, but it is more a matter that right now, a lot of hand tools ARE shitty, and the good ones are great, but hard to find.

This mixture of art and craft - especially that the tools can be art too, just doesn't exist in our culture. And the big-brand takeovers have done very little for that. Lots of big dumb brightly colored tools out there that are not especially good at what they are supposedly for.

One of the old Germans I used to work for wore clogs. Leather over wood. I asked him one day if maybe he thought he should give a pair of boots that were designed in this century a try. He looked at his clogs, looked at me, and said "Eeyouzink I donno about boots? I bin on my feet longer than you been born." (This guy had a great way of making me feel like a piece of lint, as only German tradesmen can. Another of his classic lines was "Huh. That looks pretty good. Maybe next time you do it so fast we MAKE money.")

I got a pair of clogs a couple years ago. Bastard was right. They're terrific. No shock aborbtion, no miracle membranes. They just fit right and work.

[Alden]

Back from my second 12 hour day cleaning and moving stuff out of the garage, finally have it all out but it could be months before I've gone through it all.
Thanks for the link to the files Bill. Besides the handmade saws, there are a few Razorsaw brand machine made saws in my group. According to this guy, the Razor brand is one of the highest quality machine made Japanese saws on the market, and they're under $100 (under $50 for a lot of them). You might look into that, I just dont know which particular saw would give you the most use. I will say the few cuts I've made with the saws were pretty damn amazing. Really no comparison to western saws.
Maybe Sas could give you some tips on picking one or two styles to have on hand. I do know each particular saw is for a very specific purpose; crosscuts, cutting with the grain, cutting soft or hard woods. I just dont know which saws do what.
And now when I think I have pipemaking halfway figured out, Sas tells me I have to start wearing clogs ?!?
Damn. Okay. I'll add it to the list.

[frazeeg]

Thanks for your unhumbled opinion Sas, I wondered if you would respond since you make a living in Carpentry.
Yes, they are the real deal. Hand made by Japanese dudes whose names alone will take me years to master.
The guy I got them from spent about 5 hours having me cut tenons and dovetails and sharpening the chisels before he said I could have them.
Thats the kicker. I bought a garage full of tools from him, but the Japanese tools were free.... He tells me he could never sell something that has a soul, and gives them to me on condition that I never sell them either.
I suppose its my job to learn everything I can about them now, 3 books in the mail.
I'm heading back over today for the second load, and to finish cleaning the garage for him.
I dont know what I'm more excited about, the tools or the wood.
Theres probably literally 2,000+ lbs of exotic wood. Mahogany, ebony, koa, zebrawood, curly maple, pink ivory, ziricote, cocobolo, alaskan yellow cedar, texas ebony, peruvian walnut, paulownia and a 4" thick cedar crotch big enough to make a coffee table. Plus barrels full of scraps.
Personally, I feel like I won the lottery

You lucky bastard. Wish I could find someone willing to do that around me...

[Archer]

Did I say I hate you!? Or was it just shut up? BTW, where do you put the gas in them thar jap tools!?!?

JK!!

Awesome score, it sounds better and better...

[Alden]

Did I say I hate you!? Or was it just shut up?

It was just "Shut Up", which I completely understand.
This guy had the best of everything.
I woulda really hated him, except for the fact I was loading it all in my truck and taking it home
Too bad he didnt have *everything* I needed, cause now I'm broke and still need like $1,000 worth of crap.

[JonBood]

I got a couple of the Iwasaki Japanese Files from WoodCraft here: http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2080472 ... Files.aspx

Bill, what cut did you get them in, medium/fine/extra fine? The medium ones look very rough but it says it cuts fine with a smooth surface. What is your experience in this?

Best regards

[mredmond]

Jon , I have some of the Iwasaki files, as well. They definitely cut more smoothly than they look. The medium removes material well, but leaves a somewhat smooth finish. Its not a finished level of smooth by a long shot but it is much smoother than you would expect looking at the file. I like them a lot and they work well for dialing in shaping.

Micah

[JonBood]

Thanks Micah!

Is it smooth enough too see the grains of the briar? I have trouble with that when sanding with to coarse grit if I want to take away material fast..

[mredmond]

It is smooth enough to see the grain in most cases. If you need to see the grain during filing or coarse sanding, and can't, try wetting the block with some alcohol. That should make it easier to see.

Micah