Designing

[oklahoma red]

Hello all. I'm new to this board and I'll apologize in advance if I'm broaching a subject already covered.
I've been in and out of pipe making a couple of times over the years and I'm jumping back in to hopefully stay. I need the "therapy".
Here's my subject: from a technical standpoint I can make just about anything that I've seen/held in my hands. What I lack is the creative design spark that so many pipe makers have. I get stumped and frustrated while staring at a block of briar. Some say the pipe just jumps out at them. Mine just fly on by so it seems.
Now, as I said, I can copy just about anything someone else has created. In this business what is considered ok and what is considered not so ok when it comes to plagiarizing another person's work? I realize no two pipes are the same and I enjoy "improving" or "modifying" something someone else has done.
How would I feel if someone copied something I had done? I really wouldn't mind as I would feel good that someone else felt that something I had done was worth duplicating.
I would just hate to get an email from another pipe maker calling me a sorry SOB for ripping off one of his or her designs.
I look forward to hearing other opinions.
Regards,
Chas.

[JHowell]

If the thought of using someone else's shape really bothers you, just make classic shapes for a few dozen pipes. There's always a buyer for a perfect billiard, and by the time you've made a couple hundred pipes you'll either start having ideas or become known as a skilled interpreter of classic shapes. Dublins. Bulldogs. Cuttys. Princes. Bent Billiards. Rhodesians. Zulus. I think creativity is overrated; if I had to choose one or the other I'd rather make something beautiful than original.

[potholer]

oklahoma red

In design there is a fine line between original, interpreting, copying and plagiarism.

plagiarism is never a good way to go, as many authors, scholars and artists have found out!
interpreting and copying are established artistic precedents, although attribution to the original artist should be given.
original work is the way to go if you are creative although even if, like me, your creative juices are a bit of a dry gulch!

as JHowell says "I'd rather make something beautiful than original"

at the end of the day we are all influenced by what we see whether it be pipes or other things and we have to try our best to produce something that functions and looks beautiful

this is my humble opinion, im sure others will differ

regards
dave

[Sasquatch]

All I've ever done is ripped off other people's designs, I think.

I call it.... paying tribute.

[oklahoma red]

Perhaps plagiarism was too strong a word. I like potholer's comment about interpreting and copying being established artistic precedents and JHowell's on making beautiful things rather than being original. I'm a firm believer in giving credit where credit is due and as an example I'm working one a pipe that is my take on a design that really struck me from Kim Kendall at Penguin.
JH is probably correct in that I need to concentrate on classic shapes and maybe inspiration will spring to life. My wife is very creative so I should probably get her involved in the design process.
I first got involved in the 70's when the sometimes huge and outrageous free-hands were the rage. I lived in the Kansas City area for a long time and my brother and sis-in-law had a glassware shop in Overland Park, KS. A couple of doors away from them was a tobacco shop and inside a gentleman by the name of Kerry Wathen had set up shop. Talk about a creative mind! He took me under his wing so-to-speak and taught me a huge amount about the process. I will NEVER have his creative juice but his techniques stuck with me. He's no longer with us but a lot of his work is still out there.
Chas.

[Alden]

I could be wrong. But I would imagine most of the time when you are stealing someones shape, you are probably not stealing THEIR idea, only stealing an idea they stole from someone else !
While I've seen some pipes that are above and beyond original, most of them I have seen are just interpretations of designs that someone else somewhere has already done. There are unique twists on some of the shapes, but I would think its tough to find something thats never been done before.

[Boekweg]

Im with Edward on this one, i have been looking at all kinds of pipes and pipe makers and although there is some uniqueness out there, i keep seeing repeats of the same pipes, some with a bit of a twist on it as Edward pointed out, but all-in-all i just keep seeing repeats of the same pipes and shapes over and over again.

Well, thats my 2 cents.

[Alden]

Unless you're Roger Wallenstein.

[Boekweg]

Unless you're Roger Wallenstein.

Yes, indeed!

[Sasquatch]

The plain fact is, you can attempt to copy a pipe, and you'll fail unless you are already a very very good pipe maker.

So no one gives a shit. Go ahead. Copy away. And when you produce a Ballerina that anyone says "Gosh, is that a Bo Nordh?" and you can say "No it's a Joe Smith." people will call you master Joe Smith and drool on your pipes. But it ain't gonna happen just like that.

Mostly what get produced in attempts to copy a pipe are pipes that look like a beginning pipe maker's attempt to copy a pipe. And that's just fine!

[Sir_Saartan]

I enjoy "improving" or "modifying" something someone else has done.

I was wondering: isn't improving/ modifying the design part?

when I started making my first pipes using nothing but a handheld drill,
files and sandpaper, I thought I wasn't skilled enough to make anything
like you guys make, so why not create something "freehandish" that I
designed myself instead. At least it wouldn't end up being a ridiculous
attempt of copying something beautiful.

I had to stop making pipes after 2 kits and 2 others for a couple of years
and during that time, I saw several pipes that had almost the same design
as the ones I came up with. Those looked nice because an actual pipe maker
who knew what he was doing made them, but in general it was what I thought
I had come up with.

So really unless you're a creative genious, almost anything has been made before.
And of course a skilled craftsman does better work than I do.

So now I just make the same pipe over and over again, but each time I change
some details that I think could've been better. And the better I get at the craft itself,
the more I develop an eye for what other pipe makers do differently. So I change that
part on the next pipe. And unless I mess something up, it's an improvement.

I never really thought about design. I was following advice I was given to make the
same shape again and again until I nailed it, but I believe eventually this path must
lead to where you incorporate things from one pipe into the design of a different one
instead of trying to get closer to the pipe you were trying to "nail". If you decide not to
copy a certain aspekt of the pipe you were trying to nail, but do it in a certain other
way, isn't that design already?

maybe designing is more of a process rather than something completely new
popping up in your mind.