New pipe - sort of a brandy

[bandkbrooks]

This is the first time I've really utilized a decent ring. Thanks to Kurt for the advice.

[KurtHuhn]

Glad I could help, Brandon!

Another bit of advice, when using silver rings (or really any ring), is to make yourself a throw-away ring fits over the tenon you've cut on the shank to ensure that, while you're sanding, the edge doesn't get rolled or radiused. And I can't recall if I mentioned this in emails, but cutting the first 1/8 to 3/16 of of the shank to the size you want while it's sitting on the lathe will really help you maintain the diameter and keep a crisp ring/shank transition.

On this particular pipe, I think I would have gone with a plain black stem and kept it simple. I think a standard, round saddle stem (or tapered stem) would really compliment the ring. As it is, the ring and stem here seem to be fighting each other for attention. My usual composition rules are to use a simple stem when using a silver ring - that way the ring is accentuated and allowed to "pop" visually.

Other than that, it's a nice job. Excellent work!

[bandkbrooks]

Thank you. I agree completely about the stem. This was from a kit that already included a stem. I may try and get a black one which is what I wanted anyway.
Reguarding the shank turned to size, I don't own a lathe so I had to file it by hand. That was an interesting lesson learned. The ring was initially to be bigger. For some mysterious reason a smaller one wound up fitting better. Hmmm wonder what caused that.

[KurtHuhn]

Reguarding the shank turned to size, I don't own a lathe so I had to file it by hand.

Now I'm impressed! That's a very good fitup for being hand-work.

[LexKY_Pipe]

It finished out nicely Brandon. You gonna sell it or smoke it?

[bandkbrooks]

@ Kurt - thank you again. A lathe $$$$$ is a little out of reach with the current budget. As I said it was from a kit with the chamber and draught hole drilled. I drew out the form on the block. Hand cut the major cuts with a coping saw (no band saw either $$$). I shaped it using a drill positiond between my legs facing outward with a sanding disc. Dremmel & hand filled the heck out of it, and spot checks from Craig (it's for sale btw - advice is welcomed here on how to do so).

[TreverT]

Given the tools involved, that's pretty impressive. I well recall the days when my entire pipemaking "workshop" was a bench in the corner of the garage with a Dremel and a power drill. FWIW, colorful acrylic stems like that are a hard sale. They're popular for less expensive pipes, but I've found that they're nearly total anathema to buyers looking for higher-end stuff. The myth of the "cheap yellow molded acrylic stem" is so strong that even a nice handcut from solid acrylic will cause buyers to downgrade their value estimations.

[bandkbrooks]

Thanks Trever. My workshop consists of me sitting on the front porch in a patio chair and the neighbors looking at me quizzically as they pass by. What is he doing and why is he covered in orange dust. What do you guys suggest on replacing the stem then? I really want to start selling some pipes I can justify to my wife why I'm making yet another pipe. I need advice there too please.

[TreverT]

The simplest answer to the selling question is to ask what price range you would eventually like to sell in. If you're just looking to do occasional hobby-level work, go for it and see if you get any buyers. If you're hoping to eventually be making some high grade/expensive pipes, my advice is to wait a long time before you start selling - make a lot more pipes, get better, get some better equipment, etc.

[bandkbrooks]

I'd eventually like to make high grade pipes but would still like to sell a few in the meantime. I know I have a lot to work on in the way of design. I was blessed with a "fine arts" family and come by some things naturally. With that being said I'm fully aware that I have a LOT to learn. It's actually been fun studying you guys. I feel like a cyber pipe peeping tom checking out everyone's work. I get this odd enjoyment from just looking at all the wonderful sculptural elements. I am having a great time pulling out the sketch book.

[TreverT]

I'd eventually like to make high grade pipes but would still like to sell a few in the meantime.

That's a tough call, then, mostly related to marketing. I made pipes for several years before I ever sold anything - just gave them away to pipe smoking friends, and viewed them as a hobby and practice. Then, later, when a lot of people had seen my work and started wanting to buy the better pieces, I was able to enter the market at a price point much closer to what I would eventually grow into. The thing is, if you start out selling cheap pipes at cheap prices, your rep will immediately solidify as a $75 pipemaker who does hobby-level pipes with molded stems, and that's what you'll be stuck with later. You may get much better and eventually want to sell some high end pieces, but you'll be up against the market mentality of, "Who is going to pay $400+ for a Brand X pipe when what he makes are $75 freehands?" I know it isn't what you want to hear, but if you're eventually wanting to sell high grade pipes, my best advice is to not start selling for a VERY long time. Make a lot of pipes, get a lot better at it, and then think about the sales question again two years from now if you're still interested in the hobby. FWIW!

[bandkbrooks]

Wanting to hear and needing to hear are two different things entirely. I am always appreciative of advice.

[Sasquatch]

I'm going to politely disagree with TT here - I think a guy sells everything he can, but not on the "open market" - just see if you can get material cost back out for now, selling to friends and neighbors, anyone who will smoke it and give you feedback. The fact is, the learning curve is real steep, and at pipe 10 you look back at pipe 2 (which a guy is SO proud of at the time) and think "Wow, what a piece of crap. Thank God I'm making such nice pipes now." and then pipe 50 rolls around and you look back at number 10 and think "Wow, what a piece of crap. Thank God I'm making such nice pipes now."

I think sitting for 5 years on 200 unsmoked pipes, while hopefully turning into a top-end carver, is unecessary or even foolish, if the hope is that you're going to explode onto the market as a superior carver. A) it costs too much and B) part of the process is getting pipes into OTHER people's mouths and getting them to tell you what is good or bad about them. But don't fool yourself or anyone else while you do this journey - these pipes are what they are - pipes made by a guy with a passion and very little experience. They'll sell and people will be happy if you sell them in a low price bracket. Will you look back at them in ten years and wish you hadn't sold them? Are you the next Bo Nordh? To me, it's just pipes, and if I ever sell a 500 dollar pipe, then that's wonderful, and if I just keep having fun and covering my costs (and some equipment upgrades) then I'm a happy camper. But then, I'm not a highly motivated person in this direction either. This is hobby stuff for me.

So there's the other side of that coin. I say sell em quietly to friends for 40 bucks and everyone's happy. And if you get famous cuz you are the next Bo Nordh, then someone can make some money by selling #2, and good for them I guess.

Now, will I regret this in 5 years, when my skills are better than they are now, and I have a reputation for building a very solid 150 dollar pipe and cannot crack the 300 dollar market? I don't think so, because I think you need a reputation for good smokers before you even approach the 300 dollar market. Who the hell would spend 300 bucks on a pipe from a totally unknown maker?

Cavicchi, for example, seems to me to be a guy who was offering pipes at stupidly low prices, got a reputation for building a damn good pipe, and has raised the price across the board. A couple years ago, a 1C rusticated was under a hundred bucks and that ain't the case any more.

Is this a threadjack?

Anyway, I agree with what's been said - black, plain stem, and the ring does the talking.

[bandkbrooks]

Thank you Sasquatch. I love hoping on this forum and catching all of the different views.

As few as I have made that I would show to anyone, you are correct in that I look back at pipe two and think "For the love of all creatures great and small...". I like the learning process and of course that takes time and practice.

[RadDavis]

Everyone has their own philosophy about when to start selling their work. Most all of them make sense in one way or another, depending on what you're aiming for and how long you can afford to invest in materials and time with no return.

I started off selling pipes at $50 to $75. And they were darn well worth it.

Rad

[Sasquatch]

Come on Rad, investing materials and time with no return is just... pipe making.

[KurtHuhn]

I started selling pipes at about $50, and if I had to do it again, I probably would. They were mostly sold to family and friends, though later on to the general public. I do, however, wish I had held off on selling to the general public until I had grown artistically a little more. The good thing is I've never seen one of those early pipes on the secondary market, and I still hear from their owners about how well they perform. So while I might not lay claim to one at a pipe show, I'm certainly happy they're still in use.

The snag is when to know when to raise your prices, and by how much you can raise them without pricing yourself out of the market. This can be very hit and miss. If you go too high and manage to sell a few, it's very difficult to lower the prices when you've exhausted the speculative market since the customers you did sell to will suddenly see their investment drop.

This does lead to another interesting question that I get asked all the time. The answer is in efficiency. Several years ago Trever offered advice that the single best money saver/maker you can use is to come up with time savings - whether in procedural changes, tooling, practice, etc. Those are words to live by.

[Sasquatch]

Well, that answers my question about the rubber tree too.

[bandkbrooks]

Where do you start selling though: ebay, etc.?

[Sasquatch]

I would say you are better off selling a little more discreetly for awhile. There's lots of pipe forums around - Tampandpuff, puff.com, pipesmokersforums, brothersofbriar... introduce yourself somewhere and see what happens.