Question About Ebonite Smell

[Nick]

Could you use the ebodust to melt and make your own vulcanite? I've had it in the back of my mind that if one couls some how create some sort of mesh frame in the shape of the internals of a stem, you could make a thinner stronger stem. Not sure how you'd get there, but it seems like a nifty/silly idea that would be dun to mess with.

[KurtHuhn]

You could - if you have access to the other raw materials, an injection molding machine, and an autoclave.

It's a little more work and expense than most are willing to undertake just for a stem.

[Sasquatch]

Ahhh, well that answered my question about getting the fruit off Cumberland Trees too, I imagine.

[Mike Messer]

Okay I received my SEM order today, and tested a piece of their black ebonite rod, precicely, S.E.M. 1m x 20 mm dia., eboFORM, uni Black, Ebonite stave.

Similar to Kurt's test result, when cut the SEM rod had a distinct burning rubber smell, but not too bad, and the smell subsided almost immediately. It was very similar to my test of the Giudici molded tips material. SEM is very good, and it polishes to a deep mirror black. Most Excellent.
As for the original post about the assumed NYH - Hamburger rod, it looked great, but it smelled awful when worked, and the smell lingered on the piece for weeks, or longer. However, Rad pointed out that SEM does not make Cumberland rod, and NYH does, and Cumberland looks really great on some pipes. Well, SEM now makes a "Marbled" rod which is available in Cumberland, but I'm not sure exactly how that compares to the classic Cumberland.

[Mike Messer]

Kurt, as a newly converted non-molded stem user, I find your comments are exactly right.

I spend almost as much time, not quite, but almost, shaping a premolded stem into something that looks and feels like a good quality pipe stem. This includes re-boring, thining, reshaping the button, and then trying to get a good finish on it. All in all, it is basically just as easy to drill out a piece of rod, slot it, and then grind the sucker down to rough shape - I expected it to be much tougher but my early efforts have been problem free.

And as you say, the finish is better, and you don't find out after doing an hour of work that there is actually a hairline fissure that makes the thing unusable which you didn't notice until the very end. The closer I look at the Guidicis the less I like em.

Yes and No. Well I haven't found any hairline fissures in my Giudici's, but I have encountered some really bad reddish-brown areas in the finish of some of them that makes them garbage. Some of them finish nicely, though, and they work okay for some pipes, and I disagree, about the work involved. I think the molded stems go considerably faster, and like you, I completely overhaul the thing. But Then, there is, also, this inescapable, psychological or judgement factor, that it's like using a kit. Some people would think, if you use a molded stem, you didn't really make it.
And in some creative pipe forms the custom made stem is the only way to achieve the right shape. So, that's my 10 cents worth. Oops, I forgot about the cost. The molded stems cost about 1/2 or less than a similar length piece of rod.

If the molded tip is completely overhauled, nothing left of the molding, then it's just a piece of raw ebonite material. For example here is an image of a Giudici #175 molded ebonite tip I reworked:

[ToddJohnson]

Some people would think, if you use a molded stem, you didn't really make it.

And those people would be right.

TJ

[Mike Messer]

Some people would think, if you use a molded stem, you didn't really make it.

And those people would be right.

TJ

_____Yes and no. See the image I just added to the post above____________

[ToddJohnson]

I see the image, but I don't understand what you're trying to suggest. The one on the right looks like a molded stem before it's been fit to a pipe and polished. The one on the left looks like a molded stem after it's been polished. The "modified" stem is nicely shiny, but the button on the unmodified stem is drastically better in terms of shape, profile, etc. In my opinion, both stems were made by Giudici.

TJ

[baweaverpipes]

I see the image, but I don't understand what you're trying to suggest. The one on the right looks like a molded stem before it's been fit to a pipe and polished. The one on the left looks like a molded stem after it's been polished. The "modified" stem is nicely shiny, but the button on the unmodified stem is drastically better in terms of shape, profile, etc. In my opinion, both stems were made by Giudici.

TJ

I concur regarding the lip buttons.
TJ is correct. Having "modified" my share of molded stems, there is nothing to compare to a hand cut stem. Additionally, Giudici stems stink when turned on the lathe.

[RadDavis]

Yes and no. See the image I just added to the post above

Mike, I think what you don't see yet, and most of us do, is that molded stems, no matter how much "refining" is done to them by a novice pipe maker, are obvious.

Pipe makers and most collectors can spot them at a glance. Once you've made a lot of hand cut stems, it'll become obvious to you too.

Then you can take a Guidici and make it into a stem that looks just like it's a hand cut one. The process usually involves getting a way bigger stem than you need and shaping it to the correct taper.

This skill is useful for making club pipes to keep the cost down.

Rad

[Sasquatch]

Mike, I think what you don't see yet, and most of us do, is that molded stems, no matter how much "refining" is done to them by a novice pipe maker, are obvious.
Rad

'zactly so.

I can post a dozen pics of guidici stems, heavily modified, perhaps beyond the recognition of the average pipe buyer. Here's a couple for a giggle:





And the experienced guys around here will look at those pipes and say "Hey, nice grain. Also see you are trying to use up a bag of Guidici Two-Twenty-Ones. Why not do a hand cut stem?"

Jump a couple of months. There's now rods in my shop. Here's a pipe I recently produced that Kurt, uh, well, let's just say he might find it vaguely familiar, and leave it at that (cuz it's a blatant, intentional ripoff of one of his ). Hand cut stem, and no Guidici is gonna do it for this pipe without looking like a guidici.




The point is this: These guys pushed me to go to hand-cut. They let me get going with my guidicis, and the criticism on the first few pipes was technical and nothing to do with the stem material. But the pipes got more difficult, more interesting, and just plain better. And they NEEDED hand cut stems to be what they could be.

I'm not saying I'll never use a guidici again. But the satisfaction of making my own is higher, and the pipes are better for it. Period.

[Mike Messer]

My point was that if the molded tip is drastically modified, whether you like the new shape or not, it is just raw material. But despite what I said, I don't disagree with most of what all of you are saying about handmade stems, and I am aware of things like self-deception, compromises, excuses, etc.
There is no substitute for a good handmade stem, Agreed.
I have some SEM rod to work with, also.
I do have some resistance to the idea of working toward a shape which is obviously handmade, just to make sure that people know it is handmade, but this is probably a topic which could go on forever.
M.M.

Also Todd's and B.A. Weaver's comment about the button is probably the consensus among pipemakers, collectors, and pipe smokers, but I personally, and especially for my own use, prefer a small, rounded, low-profile button. I have one with no button at all, and while it is not very dramatic visually, it is very comfortable to smoke.
And the B.A. Weaver comment, "Giudici's stink when turned on a lathe" I don't know of any ebonite that smells good, but I think the Giudici's have the least offensive odor when worked.

[ToddJohnson]

Also Todd's comment about the button is probably the consensus among pipemakers, collectors, and pipe smokers, but I personally, and especially for my own use, prefer a small, rounded, low-profile button. I have one with no button at all, and while it is not very dramatic visually, it is very comfortable to smoke.

Yes, this is a common excuse amongst new pipemakers when they make something that is sloppy, or ugly, or not well finished: "I know it's not the norm., but that's the way I like 'em." If you're making pipes for an audience of one, there's certainly no reason to solicit advice here. Many of us have been through this same BS with a guy who's internet handle was "random." If you're not actually him, you might want to try reading a bunch of his old posts since the two of you seem to be of one mind on so man things.

TJ

[Mike Messer]

Also Todd's comment about the button is probably the consensus among pipemakers, collectors, and pipe smokers, but I personally, and especially for my own use, prefer a small, rounded, low-profile button. I have one with no button at all, and while it is not very dramatic visually, it is very comfortable to smoke.

Yes, this is a common excuse amongst new pipemakers when they make something that is sloppy, or ugly, or not well finished: "I know it's not the norm., but that's the way I like 'em." If you're making pipes for an audience of one, there's certainly no reason to solicit advice here. Many of us have been through this same BS with a guy who's internet handle was "random." If you're not actually him, you might want to try reading a bunch of his old posts since the two of you seem to be of one mind on so man things.

TJ

You need professional help, Todd.
M.M.
I'd be willing to contribute a few bucks if you can't afford it.
M.M
Well, okay I don't have a lot of money to spare, so I take a shot at it, myself.
Sometimes, your comments are so hostile and offensive that they become delusional slander, and you extend this by reference to something you consider to be even more degrading. Stretched and Twisted in this way, nothing you say connects very well to the topic being discussed or even to reality.
However, I will give you this much, in some cases it may have some value to the person being addressed if he is in fact making excuses. But in some cases, and especially to others looking on, there is a danger that the person being addressed will be wrongfully degraded.
I hope this will help you in some way.
M.M.

[Mike Messer]

Giudici #231 Molded Ebonite Stem?



Giudici #231 Molded Ebonite Stem!



Note: The image TK - No 22.jpg is an exerpt for critical review or discussion from http://www.teddybriarpipes.dk/. Permissible by United States Copyright Law and International Treaties.

[kbadkar]

"The Way" is a principle in Taoism likened to the nature of water, finding the path of least resistance to the lowest point. M.M., you will have a difficult time trying to force water uphill.

Note: looking at that last picture, you need to work on your stem/shank junctions.

[Mike Messer]

"The Way" is a principle in Taoism likened to the nature of water, finding the path of least resistance to the lowest point. M.M., you will have a difficult time trying to force water uphill.

Note: looking at that last picture, you need to work on your stem/shank junctions.

No doubt, the pipe has many flaws, I could detail, but that is not the topic.

This topic has a lot of warp-swing opinions and ideas, which may be a good thing, actually. As for my opinion upstream or downstream, I think, I'm just working toward a balanced perspective.

M.M.

[RadDavis]

Mike,

I'm not sure what you're trying to illustrate with the pics of your pipe and Teddy's.

Are you trying to say that there's no difference between his stem and a Guidici 231?

Rad

[kbadkar]

... but I think, if I am not mistaken, I am not the one who is pushing, here.

M.M.

You are mistaken. But still, your struggles with this new craft illustrates to other newbies how important it is to skip the excessive investigations and move on to the more creative and informative process of making a pipe.

Edit: MM, you keep going back and editing your comments, now the one above disappeared. Live with a post in the past and move on to the next.

[Mike Messer]

Mike,

I'm not sure what you're trying to illustrate with the pics of your pipe and Teddy's.

Are you trying to say that there's no difference between his stem and a Guidici 231?

Rad

Exactly, but still, I'm not pushing hard against your ideas about handmade stems, just trying to keep an open mind.

M.M.