Question About Ebonite Smell

[JHowell]

A few months back a teenaged family member asked me to help her pick out a new acoustic guitar, (something that I'm qualified to do). At the guitar store we narrowed it down to two models that fit in her budget. I strongly recommended one, but she picked the other. She had asked for my advice, I gave it, and she decided not to take it. Sure, I felt slightly put-out by the whole experience but I certainly didn't take pains to punish her for not taking my advice. In time she'll either want a better guitar or she won't. As she gets more experience with guitars she may trust my advice in the future, or she may not. I fail to see how my making her feel bad about her decision would cause her to ask for my advice in the future or make her happier about playing guitar in general. Isn't the point of all this to make pipemaking more accessible to all?

I think that teachers should have more tolerance for the ignorant and inexperienced than is being displayed in this thread.

Sigh, I guess this is how Todd feels. OK, some of us suck. We're intolerant, impatient, rude, etc. etc. We're HORRIBLE teachers. We fail to precisely match our communication mode to the aptitude of the questioner, and we fail to construct Socratic dialogues that lead him to the truth without arousing his defensive mechanisms. I'm glad you were patient with your niece (or whatever). Good for you. Here's a news flash: I don't come here to be a teacher. Nor does Todd, nor most of the pro or semi-pro makers who bother. We come here to answer questions and help people who actually want help, to learn things ourselves, exchange news, and bust chops. If a newbie asks a question, he'll get answers that are probably accurate and are at the very least free. He says, how do I do X? I say, like so. If he comes back and says I tried what you said and it didn't work, what's wrong, I'll say, did you do Y? And so forth. I'm glad to do that (and I know Todd is, too, he's done it with me), but if I say you do X like so and he says, well, THAT won't work, then I'm gone, it's a waste of time.

More tolerance for the ignorant, indeed. If a newbie's contribution to our knowledge is that vulcanite stinks and he continues to insist that this is news, that kicks things into the busting chops mode, and if he really wants help with pipe making he can either get over it and hang in there, or not. If he can't take a shot, he should avoid open forums and go find a kind, patient, sensitive pipemaker who loves to teach and won't tell him the truth straight out but will make sure he feels good about himself.

Rad?

[RadDavis]

Jack, it's not about actually teaching. It's all about maintaining the self esteem of the student.

I thought you knew this.

Rad

[Mike Messer]

Okay, Jeez, all the above 9 pages...
Just for the record, I was not wrong, not proved wrong, not wrong at all about the particular Stinky Rod. It was unusually bad, absolutely. I took a pounding because of a communication problem...It is hard to accurately quantify and describe a smell, and people assumed I was some dumb newby and I thought ebonite should not smell bad, and that I was refusing to accept this. After that, forget about it. It's just too deep a pile.
M.M.
So, Rad, how's your NYH stock doing in the market?

[geigerpipes]

Guys Thanks for a truly entertaining thread... Like Ricky Lake on pipe making

I for one love the stench of ebonite.. thats the smell of money being made... The stench of bullshit on the other hand just leaves a sour taste in me mouth

[Frank]

Rad "If you wish to address me, please drop to one knee." Davis.

I only have one fockn knee!!

[Kettletrigger]

Well, it looks like the guns are coming to bear.

And I thought that the old farts on the machinist forums were dicks...but it looks like some of you guys may have them beat.

I can't wait to read the critiques when I start to post photos of my pipes.

[Mike Messer]

More tolerance for the ignorant, indeed. If a newbie's contribution to our knowledge is that vulcanite stinks and he continues to insist that this is news, that kicks things into the busting chops mode, and if he really wants help with pipe making he can either get over it and hang in there, or not. If he can't take a shot, he should avoid open forums and go find a kind, patient, sensitive pipemaker who loves to teach and won't tell him the truth straight out but will make sure he feels good about himself.

Tolerance is not what you need, and I'm not ignorant. You just need to learn how to read, but I'll give you this much. It was a gunky pile of posts to wade through and sort out, but I NEVER SAID THAT EBONITE DOES NOT SMELL BAD. I have been misquoted and misexampled to hell and back, and I have taken the shots. And furthermore, I was right about the particular ebonite being discussed. It was about DEGREES of QUALITY.
Now, lets test your ability to take a shot, and understand this is just a test.
Piss off, moron.
M.M.

[Frank]

Tolerance is not what you need, and I'm not ignorant.
Piss off, moron.

I seem to be having trouble with my ageing brain. Now what's that catch-phrase, again? - (taps noggin to loosen decades of cobwebs) - Ah yes, now I remember - "There's no fool like an old fool"! Yep, sounds about right.

[baweaverpipes]

Piss off, moron.
M.M.

Putting ebonite aside for the time being, do you have any questions regarding the drilling, shaping or finishing of pipes?
You have positioned yourself where anyone would be more than willing to lend you a hand.
Helping fine gentlemen, such as yourself, is a pleasure and all are willing to encourage new pipe maker's.
Best of luck in all future endeavors

[RadDavis]

Okay, Jeez, all the above 9 pages...
Just for the record, I was not wrong, not proved wrong, not wrong at all about the particular Stinky Rod. It was unusually bad, absolutely. I took a pounding because of a communication problem...It is hard to accurately quantify and describe a smell, and people assumed I was some dumb newby and I thought ebonite should not smell bad, and that I was refusing to accept this. After that, forget about it. It's just too deep a pile.
M.M.
So, Rad, how's your NYH stock doing in the market?

Kurt Huhn wrote:

Now it should be noted that at no time during the test did I consider the odor from any of the samples to be particularly strong. Detectable, yes. Quickly identifiable as ebonite, yes. However, well within the tolerance range of my nose. My wife knew what I was doing, but did not comment on the strength of the odor floating up from the workshop. I did not detect any odor in the house proper. I would classify the sample as having a typical ebonite smell when being worked.

Mike,

Did you not read this post from Kurt about the rod sample you sent to him?

Or did you just refuse to believe what he observed?

Or is everybody here just out to discredit you?

Rad

[RadDavis]

Rad "If you wish to address me, please drop to one knee." Davis.

I only have one fockn knee!!

That one will do.

Rad

[JHowell]

Jack, it's not about actually teaching. It's all about maintaining the self esteem of the student.

I thought you knew this.

Rad

See, I knew you would be perfect. Why don't you show him along?

Jack

[Sasquatch]

Mr Howell, FWIW, I don't think you're a moron. Hope you come back to the forum some day when the wounds heal.

Mike, in the philosophical, "does the world really exist", hard-skeptic sorta way, you're right. You were never proved wrong. I hope that your pipes don't put the rest of us outta business.

Kettle, post some pipes dude. That's what it's about. No one will be harder on you because you didn't "go with the flow" or anything like that. The fact that the only pipe Mike posted here was a terrible looking piece of shit is the only reason the rest of us aren't running from his superior skills.

Kurt, kill this thread and let's throw another Newbie on the fire - I'm kinda hungry.

[JHowell]

Mr Howell, FWIW, I don't think you're a moron. Hope you come back to the forum some day when the wounds heal.

Wounds? FWIW, I don't see any posts by those two clowns anymore unless someone else quotes them, so I don't know what you're talking about. If someone called me a moron I'm blissfully unaware of it. Now I'm off to see if I can put this whole thread in an "ignore" file so I won't be tempted to feed the trolls again. My apologies, gentlemen.

Jack

[KurtHuhn]

I haven't locked the thread yet out of pure unadulterated laziness. I think, however, that we're sufficiently beyond the scope of the original question, even beyond the scope of the secondary query, and well into the stage of simple bickering.

FWIW, I can agree with one point above - that there are people more suited to dealing with the wilfully ignorant than others. I'm probably one of them, but only because in most cases I truly don't give a crap because it doesn't affect me in any way. The wilfully abrasive, on the other hand, tend to raise my hackles.

My learning process tends to be "start in the middle and work towards the beginning". Obviously this isn't for everyone, and it's one of the things that used to frustrate the ever loving shit out of most anyone that ever tried to teach me something. There are folks, however, that excel at teaching that style of learner - but since they're few and far between, I tend to be mostly self-taught. If this is how you learn, maybe you need to just find the right person. And at the same time, try to be receptive to the others - even if you find the delivery distasteful.