pipemakersforum.com

Some of us (myself) simply don't like to conform, and never intend to sell a pipe to anyone. I may give a few away as gifts, but selling pipes is not really a goal. If it happens, I'll roll with it, but I'm not planning it by any means.

That said, I'd give up if I tried to simply "master the basics". It's just not in me. I'm not bragging in the least, but I have a ridiculously high IQ, and if I'm not constantly challenged, I give up. That's not to say all my ideas are winners, as they're not. And I still do stupid things from time to time, mostly because I don't slow down and think.
But, there are times when things just click, and I produce gold.

I may mess up more often than if I took the time to master all the basics first, but I don't give up working the way I do now, and I still learn, just differently than most people do. So, this works for me. I'm not saying it's right, or others should do things like this, but it's what I do.
When I first try something, I will often try something much more difficult than a "beginner" would often go for. But for me, it creates a challenge that will keep pushing me to get it right. And if it was so easy that I got it on my first try, it's likely I'd get bored and give up.

Below is a bowl I turned when I first got my lathe. I had my lathe for about 2-1/2 weeks when I completed it, and one of those weeks I was on vacation. It was actually my third bowl, the first being small, the second being a huge hollow vase type form cut from a spalted oak crotch. Then, I moved on to figured maple, and got what you see below.




Maybe taking it slow works for some. I prefer to dive in feet first and figure out what works, what doesn't, and what I'm capable of.

You should meet an old friend of ours. His name is Mike, and he's a real great guy.

SimeonTurner wrote:You should meet an old friend of ours. His name is Mike, and he's a real great guy.

Is it bad that I was thinking the same thing?

It appears that someone is trying to make a "Random Messer" out of things here...

Kenny wrote:Some of us (myself) simply don't like to conform, and never intend to sell a pipe to anyone. I may give a few away as gifts, but selling pipes is not really a goal. If it happens, I'll roll with it, but I'm not planning it by any means.

That said, I'd give up if I tried to simply "master the basics". It's just not in me. I'm not bragging in the least, but I have a ridiculously high IQ, and if I'm not constantly challenged, I give up. That's not to say all my ideas are winners, as they're not. And I still do stupid things from time to time, mostly because I don't slow down and think.
But, there are times when things just click, and I produce gold.

I may mess up more often than if I took the time to master all the basics first, but I don't give up working the way I do now, and I still learn, just differently than most people do. So, this works for me. I'm not saying it's right, or others should do things like this, but it's what I do.
When I first try something, I will often try something much more difficult than a "beginner" would often go for. But for me, it creates a challenge that will keep pushing me to get it right. And if it was so easy that I got it on my first try, it's likely I'd get bored and give up.

Below is a bowl I turned when I first got my lathe. I had my lathe for about 2-1/2 weeks when I completed it, and one of those weeks I was on vacation. It was actually my third bowl, the first being small, the second being a huge hollow vase type form cut from a spalted oak crotch. Then, I moved on to figured maple, and got what you see below.

Maybe taking it slow works for some. I prefer to dive in feet first and figure out what works, what doesn't, and what I'm capable of.

Kenny,

I understand your point, but I would suggest that you are under estimating pipe making a little bit.

That is a very nice bowl that you made during your first week on the lathe, but it is no master's bowl.

It is one thing to take a block of Briar and drill a couple of holes that line up, put a stem on it and end up with something that will smoke.

It is much much harder to make a pipe that someone would drop $250 for. I understand that is not your intention, but if you truly want to master an art then your goal should be to produce something of that quality. And I am suggesting that unless one is a prodigy, then mastering the basics is critical to reaching a point where you can produce consistent high quality product.

If you disagree with me, then I offer you a challenge. Make a boring old standard billiard, post it in the gallery and ask for a truly honest critique.

If you just want to make pipes as a fun hobby and enjoy the fellowship of this forum, then that is fine too. You are welcome.

Todd

Ah, the good ol' billiard challenge.

Someone is marching to the beat of a different trombone player. I think that's great!

However, I'm not sure why you're here on the forum. Experienced pipe makers here come to offer help. Inexperienced pipe makers come to look for help.

You've apparently come to tell us about your ridiculously high IQ and to show us a maple bowl that you made as a way to explain why you don't need to learn anything from us, because you can just teach yourself. Apparently it takes a ridiculously high IQ to make a maple bowl.

Pipes....not so much.

Hope this helps.

Rad

Im lost

as a newbie and often confused but where does the stem go?

dave

"If you just want to make pipes as a fun hobby and enjoy the fellowship of this forum, then that is fine too. You are welcome."

That's me, though I don't feel as if I know all enough to really get into it with many. But gotta say, do love it when others do!

And, the Mike thing got me laughing so hard I almost spit out my coffee! I read so many of those posts I still remember his pricing issues. He sold anything yet? LOL.

RadDavis wrote:Someone is marching to the beat of a different trombone player. I think that's great!

However, I'm not sure why you're here on the forum. Experienced pipe makers here come to offer help. Inexperienced pipe makers come to look for help.

You've apparently come to tell us about your ridiculously high IQ and to show us a maple bowl that you made as a way to explain why you don't need to learn anything from us, because you can just teach yourself. Apparently it takes a ridiculously high IQ to make a maple bowl.

Pipes....not so much.

Hope this helps.

Rad

That would be me. Never ceases to amaze me how every time I hit some issue with a pipe, a half hour or so on this forum and I can find an answer/work around. Never fails.

wmolaw wrote: He sold anything yet?

Not according to his website (I check it from time to time just to be sure).

I agree with Kenny's point about jumping in and trying something new, don't be intimidated it's a great mindset for learning completely new things skills techniques. But another idea I agree with is that it takes 10,000 hours to completely master a skill. with a 40 hour work week that's 5 years full time.

Alden wrote:

wmolaw wrote: He sold anything yet?

Not according to his website (I check it from time to time just to be sure).

I have in the past as well. The longer I reside on this mortal coil, the more I realize just how bizarre we all are.

wmolaw wrote:

Alden wrote:

wmolaw wrote: He sold anything yet?

Not according to his website (I check it from time to time just to be sure).

I have in the past as well. The longer I reside on this mortal coil, the more I realize just how bizarre we all are.

Were I rich I would have bought all his pipes just to mess with you all.

wmolaw wrote:

Alden wrote:

wmolaw wrote: He sold anything yet?

Not according to his website (I check it from time to time just to be sure).

I have in the past as well. The longer I reside on this mortal coil, the more I realize just how bizarre we all are.

There is no doubt in the world that you would have succeeded, no doubt at all.

RadDavis wrote:Someone is marching to the beat of a different trombone player. I think that's great!

However, I'm not sure why you're here on the forum. Experienced pipe makers here come to offer help. Inexperienced pipe makers come to look for help.

You've apparently come to tell us about your ridiculously high IQ and to show us a maple bowl that you made as a way to explain why you don't need to learn anything from us, because you can just teach yourself. Apparently it takes a ridiculously high IQ to make a maple bowl.

Pipes....not so much.

Hope this helps.

Rad

You've completely missed my point, completely missed it. As in not even on the same planet anymore.

And if you would look around, I've asked many questions, and I read a lot of what others write, and I take a lot of advice. But, I still do things my own way, plain and simple. And I don't expect anyone here to do things my way. Everyone has their own ways that work. And I'll tell you flat out, after 30 years on the planet, and having an undying hunger for learning new things, I know how I need to learn to keep myself interested in something. And doing the same thing over and over ain't it.

I'm here to learn to make what I as a person like, not to make what others like. If you can understand that, you're well on your way to understanding me and why I do things my own way. It may not be the best way, but it works for me as an individual.

And if you think bowl turning is so easy, I've got some tools sharpened and a block ready.

It's the same principle as with a pipe, you need to understand the form before you're going to get anything remotely decent. And I'm not saying I understand it yet, that's why I'm here. I go to the gallery often, and read how others critique a pipe, and see the flaws for myself.
And I've not mastered turning yet either, which is why I'm going to take a week long class with a famous turner later this year. I explained to him I didn't want it to be a repetitive class, and he understood, saying everyone learns differently, as that's something he's picked up after years of teaching.

All I'm saying is I don't think learning needs to be the same for everyone. To try to tell every single person on earth that they have to learn the same way as all the others just isn't being realistic. Not everyone is wired the same, and not everybody is going to learn the same.

Anyway, what in God's name would I do with a dozen Billiard pipes when I don't even like the shape?

As for the challenge, accepted. Give me a few weeks, you'll have your billiard.

Kenny wrote:

RadDavis wrote:Someone is marching to the beat of a different trombone player. I think that's great!

However, I'm not sure why you're here on the forum. Experienced pipe makers here come to offer help. Inexperienced pipe makers come to look for help.

You've apparently come to tell us about your ridiculously high IQ and to show us a maple bowl that you made as a way to explain why you don't need to learn anything from us, because you can just teach yourself. Apparently it takes a ridiculously high IQ to make a maple bowl.

Pipes....not so much.

Hope this helps.

Rad

You've completely missed my point, completely missed it. As in not even on the same planet anymore.

And if you would look around, I've asked many questions, and I read a lot of what others write, and I take a lot of advice. But, I still do things my own way, plain and simple. And I don't expect anyone here to do things my way. Everyone has their own ways that work. And I'll tell you flat out, after 30 years on the planet, and having an undying hunger for learning new things, I know how I need to learn to keep myself interested in something. And doing the same thing over and over ain't it.

I'm here to learn to make what I as a person like, not to make what others like. If you can understand that, you're well on your way to understanding me and why I do things my own way. It may not be the best way, but it works for me as an individual.

And if you think bowl turning is so easy, I've got some tools sharpened and a block ready.

It's the same principle as with a pipe, you need to understand the form before you're going to get anything remotely decent. And I'm not saying I understand it yet, that's why I'm here. I go to the gallery often, and read how others critique a pipe, and see the flaws for myself.
And I've not mastered turning yet either, which is why I'm going to take a week long class with a famous turner later this year. I explained to him I didn't want it to be a repetitive class, and he understood, saying everyone learns differently, as that's something he's picked up after years of teaching.

All I'm saying is I don't think learning needs to be the same for everyone. To try to tell every single person on earth that they have to learn the same way as all the others just isn't being realistic. Not everyone is wired the same, and not everybody is going to learn the same.

Anyway, what in God's name would I do with a dozen Billiard pipes when I don't even like the shape?

As for the challenge, accepted. Give me a few weeks, you'll have your billiard.

Again, my disclaimer (newbie, etc., etc., etc.) but what I think folks are saying is that one must be master of the basics before they can move forward, upward. Many artists are this way, the years of mastery of the basics are not discussed/shown/observed except by those who participated/worked during those years. Instead, the results of learning of the basics, the ability to allow one's creativity to fly knowing that the basics will act as a foundation, are what hang in the galleries, or sell for $2,000 on Smokingpipes.com.

Whether "learning" is the same or not (I tend to think it is, some just learn more quickly than others), one must learn the basics before they can progress to a level they wish to attain.

As in Golf. (I tend to equate everything to Golf! Golf is life.) You just can't play at the top level without the basics, grip, stance, posture.

However, I enjoy your posts and am learning quite a bit. The thread on dust removal has been very interesting, scared the shit out of me and I'm now trying to figure out how to create a dust removal system in my basement which has no ability to vent to the outside. Damnit!

I pretty much enjoy everyone's posts, actually. Hell, I'm 58 but feel childlike as I begin this new area of endeavor. It's a great feeling.

Kenny wrote:
You've completely missed my point, completely missed it. As in not even on the same planet anymore.

And if you would look around, I've asked many questions, and I read a lot of what others write, and I take a lot of advice. But, I still do things my own way, plain and simple. And I don't expect anyone here to do things my way. Everyone has their own ways that work. And I'll tell you flat out, after 30 years on the planet, and having an undying hunger for learning new things, I know how I need to learn to keep myself interested in something. And doing the same thing over and over ain't it.

I'm here to learn to make what I as a person like, not to make what others like. If you can understand that, you're well on your way to understanding me and why I do things my own way. It may not be the best way, but it works for me as an individual.

And if you think bowl turning is so easy, I've got some tools sharpened and a block ready.

It's the same principle as with a pipe, you need to understand the form before you're going to get anything remotely decent. And I'm not saying I understand it yet, that's why I'm here. I go to the gallery often, and read how others critique a pipe, and see the flaws for myself.
And I've not mastered turning yet either, which is why I'm going to take a week long class with a famous turner later this year. I explained to him I didn't want it to be a repetitive class, and he understood, saying everyone learns differently, as that's something he's picked up after years of teaching.

All I'm saying is I don't think learning needs to be the same for everyone. To try to tell every single person on earth that they have to learn the same way as all the others just isn't being realistic. Not everyone is wired the same, and not everybody is going to learn the same.

Anyway, what in God's name would I do with a dozen Billiard pipes when I don't even like the shape?

As for the challenge, accepted. Give me a few weeks, you'll have your billiard.

To The Brother From Another Planet:

I wish you well with your endeavors.

Understanding the form of a pipe and being able to make that pipe are two entirely different things, as you will find when you start making pipes. Nobody is saying that you have to learn the same way as everybody else. They are just saying you have to learn the same things. How you get there is up to you.

I can tell you that in pipe making, there is no substitution for repetition and hard work. It creates muscle memory, and an understanding of what needs to be done to make a better pipe the next time you sit down to do it. If you get bored doing the same thing over and over, then you may have a very difficult time getting good at shaping a pipe. Every beginner pipe looks like crap. Bo Nordh's early pipes looked chunky and amateurish, and he is considered the best pipe maker that ever lived. What made him better was repetition. Doing things over and over.

I apologize if you thought that I was impugning your bowl turning abilities. That bowl is very nicely done. You built a nice straw man to respond to though.

I just thought it was a bit silly to mention your high IQ and show us that bowl as some sort of indicator that you should be able to make nice pipes. Bowl turning experience will help in shaping the parts of a pipe that can be turned on a lathe. All pipes have to be hand shaped at some point (many have to be entirely hand shaped), and the parts that have to be hand shaped are the most important as far as how the finished pipe will look. Seeing what needs to be done and being able to execute that is what makes a good pipe maker. Some makers have extraordinary skills and can get there very quickly. Others, like me, take a while longer. Intelligence has nothing to do with it.

Bill Shalosky is a very well known bowl turner. Ask him how long it took him to learn to make a decent looking pipe. Then ask him if he learned by doing it over and over or by springing forth as a fully formed pipe maker.

I look forward to seeing your billiard in a few weeks.

Rad

very diplomatic at the risk of sounding like an ass I've met and worked with few guys who were all talk.. and had to go back and tear out and re-do their work because they lacked the experience to do it right and also lacked the common sense to know experience matters. I think one of them went on at length about how smart he was...

RadDavis wrote:

Kenny wrote:
You've completely missed my point, completely missed it. As in not even on the same planet anymore.

And if you would look around, I've asked many questions, and I read a lot of what others write, and I take a lot of advice. But, I still do things my own way, plain and simple. And I don't expect anyone here to do things my way. Everyone has their own ways that work. And I'll tell you flat out, after 30 years on the planet, and having an undying hunger for learning new things, I know how I need to learn to keep myself interested in something. And doing the same thing over and over ain't it.

I'm here to learn to make what I as a person like, not to make what others like. If you can understand that, you're well on your way to understanding me and why I do things my own way. It may not be the best way, but it works for me as an individual.

And if you think bowl turning is so easy, I've got some tools sharpened and a block ready.

It's the same principle as with a pipe, you need to understand the form before you're going to get anything remotely decent. And I'm not saying I understand it yet, that's why I'm here. I go to the gallery often, and read how others critique a pipe, and see the flaws for myself.
And I've not mastered turning yet either, which is why I'm going to take a week long class with a famous turner later this year. I explained to him I didn't want it to be a repetitive class, and he understood, saying everyone learns differently, as that's something he's picked up after years of teaching.

All I'm saying is I don't think learning needs to be the same for everyone. To try to tell every single person on earth that they have to learn the same way as all the others just isn't being realistic. Not everyone is wired the same, and not everybody is going to learn the same.

Anyway, what in God's name would I do with a dozen Billiard pipes when I don't even like the shape?

As for the challenge, accepted. Give me a few weeks, you'll have your billiard.

To The Brother From Another Planet:

I wish you well with your endeavors.

Understanding the form of a pipe and being able to make that pipe are two entirely different things, as you will find when you start making pipes. Nobody is saying that you have to learn the same way as everybody else. They are just saying you have to learn the same things. How you get there is up to you.

I can tell you that in pipe making, there is no substitution for repetition and hard work. It creates muscle memory, and an understanding of what needs to be done to make a better pipe the next time you sit down to do it. If you get bored doing the same thing over and over, then you may have a very difficult time getting good at shaping a pipe. Every beginner pipe looks like crap. Bo Nordh's early pipes looked chunky and amateurish, and he is considered the best pipe maker that ever lived. What made him better was repetition. Doing things over and over.

I apologize if you thought that I was impugning your bowl turning abilities. That bowl is very nicely done. You built a nice straw man to respond to though.

I just thought it was a bit silly to mention your high IQ and show us that bowl as some sort of indicator that you should be able to make nice pipes. Bowl turning experience will help in shaping the parts of a pipe that can be turned on a lathe. All pipes have to be hand shaped at some point (many have to be entirely hand shaped), and the parts that have to be hand shaped are the most important as far as how the finished pipe will look. Seeing what needs to be done and being able to execute that is what makes a good pipe maker. Some makers have extraordinary skills and can get there very quickly. Others, like me, take a while longer. Intelligence has nothing to do with it.

Bill Shalosky is a very well known bowl turner. Ask him how long it took him to learn to make a decent looking pipe. Then ask him if he learned by doing it over and over or by springing forth as a fully formed pipe maker.

I look forward to seeing your billiard in a few weeks.

Rad

I agree. Well put.