Alt staining.

[Fuente81]

Hello all,

Reacently I have been experimenting with some alt. food grade items to use for staining and I would like to hear what others have tried and how it has worked?

So far, I have used some organic Chianti and Merlot's that have produced some pretty amazing results. They are alcohol based after all. So I figured why not give it a go! not my interest is peaked.

However, most any stain can look good under a nice layer of carnuba and not come off on your hands as well. The wine stains seem to hold up wel and not pull off with heat so far that is...

Thanks!

E.

[pennsyscot]

My suggestion would be to use leather dye. It produces a very deep color and penetrates deeply, important characteristic when trying to make a good contrast. I have experimented with organic stains for furniture finishing. They aren't bright, don't penetrate well, tend to be blotchy, and most of all, they have low UV resistance. I think if you use these types of dyes you will find thaty your pipes fade rapidly. Leather and furniture dyes are inexpensive, dry quickly, and are ideally suited to your purpose. This is just my humble opinion, I could be wrong. Please keep us informed of your success with these experiments. Let's see some pics.

[Fuente81]

Thanks for the reply. As for the leather dye, I purchased some on e-bay and it was the brand mentioned on another thread here. I got a bright yellow and gave it a try. The results were varied. Blotchy, dull and by using the dabber that it came with, the pipe was covered in small fibers that I had to use some 0 steel wool to remove and that left the marks where the fibers had been. So I resanded it and tried a second time with better success, but still it looked a bit blotchy and dull even after a ood carnuba waxing. just not right.

Thats I moved on to other possible dyes. like the wine. It seems to be less blotchy and more even when I brew it down a bit and make more of a glaze than a straight application. "do I drink this stuff or stain a pipe with it"? ! anyway, like I said in my first post, the results are good after a few apps and a good carnuba coating. Now I am letting it sit outside for a few hours each day and get some sun to see how it holds up to the UV factor. I will post some pics soon and keep you all posted in the results.

E.

[kkendall]

After applying the dye, it's a good idea to give the pipe a quick spray of alcohol and wipe it down. That will even out the stain.

Then after staining, if you don't have a tripoli wheel, you can use 0000 steel wool to get the grain to show up great.

[KurtHuhn]

Thanks for the reply. As for the leather dye, I purchased some on e-bay and it was the brand mentioned on another thread here. I got a bright yellow and gave it a try. The results were varied. Blotchy, dull and by using the dabber that it came with, the pipe was covered in small fibers that I had to use some 0 steel wool to remove and that left the marks where the fibers had been. So I resanded it and tried a second time with better success, but still it looked a bit blotchy and dull even after a ood carnuba waxing. just not right.

Do you gave a picture of this, or at least a description of your process? I'm puzzled because this is almost certainly not the fault of the dye, but of the technique you're using for sanding, staining, and buffing. The stain/dye should never dictate the quality of the finish shine - at least not as far as I've ever seen.

[Frank]

As for the leather dye, I purchased some on e-bay and it was the brand mentioned on another thread here. I got a bright yellow and gave it a try. The results were varied. Blotchy, dull and by using the dabber that it came with, the pipe was covered in small fibers...

Do not use the dauber that comes with the stain. Most pipemakers agree that a regular pipe cleaner bent double with a couple of twists works excellently for applying stain.

After what grit sanding are you applying the stain? If you're applying the first coat of stain after the pipe is already smooth sanded, it's possible for it to come out blotchy. Another reason could be that your hands were ever so slightly oily when handling the pipe prior to staining, even from sweat.

If the dye/stain is Fiebing's, are you sure you got the alcohol based dye? They also make an oil based dye which might not penetrate as well as the alcohol based.

[KurtHuhn]

Good points Boerewors man. I forgot that Feibings has an oil based dye. If you try to apply that after sanding to a really high grit, it won't penetrate well at all.

[ToddJohnson]

For finishing, I sand with 400 grit, wet the pipe down to raise the grain, sand again with the same piece of 400 grit. Then only wipe the pipe down with a smooth cloth--no alcohol, no water, no nothing. Then stain the pipe with the undercoat and allow to dry for an hour or so before sanding it off with the same worn out piece of 400 grit. It's also worth noting that the paper makes a difference. I would recommend using only 3M wet/dry paper. Then, when you go over the pipe with your top coat, try to do so in a single uniform pass to keep from pulling up the under coat of stain. This will give you very good and nicely contrasted results. Oh, and by the way, a useful trick is to take an old pipe stem and use it as a handle for inserting your pipecleaner into. This keeps you from having hands that are constantly the color of your last pipe.

Todd

[Fuente81]

The technique I was using to stain was to wear latex gloves to avoid and staining on my hands and oils on the pipe. I was applying Fiebing’s alcohol based leather dye. I made double sure to check it when I bought it on e-bay and the smell is undeniably alcohol.
Now, after reading all your comments, I think I know where the problem is. I was not applying the dye until after my final sanding. Thus not allowing even staining or proper penetration. I think. The sanding I do starts with 400 grit and I move up to 800 and finally a 00 steel wool. So the briar is pretty sealed at that point. In addition, I was not giving the pipe a quick alcohol wipe after application to help even out.
So combine that with the dabber and you have a problem. Correct? Well, I am going to give it another try tonight and see how it go’s. I will post the results.

Thanks all!

E.

[Frank]

Oh, and by the way, a useful trick is to take an old pipe stem and use it as a handle for inserting your pipecleaner into. This keeps you from having hands that are constantly the color of your last pipe.

Ohh, great tip, Todd. Now I won't have to hide my hands that look like the beginnings of a medieval cloth dyer.

...I move up to 800 and finally a 00 steel wool.

That is quite likely where your problem is. No open grain pores to absorb the stain.

I basically follow Kurt's procedure and get decent results:
1) Sand to 220
2) Understain
3) Sand 320/400
4) 2nd Understain
5) Sand 500
6) Overstain

... Boerewors man.

Jeez! I still get the crap nicknames . At boarding school I was called Bookworm (always reading in my spare time) and Blinkie (I guess I blinked a lot). Being called Devil's Child by the housemaster when I misbehaved was pretty cool, though.

[Charl]

... Boerewors man

[pennsyscot]

I noticed no one mentioned anything about ultra fine sandpaper. What about micromesh in grits such as 1800 and 2400. Am I wasting my time with all this sanding? How can I minimize the amount of black stain lifted when the second color is applied? I would appreciate any suggestions on how to achieve a super high gloss high contrast finish. thanks, scot

[KurtHuhn]

Micromesh is way out in left field with their grit sizes. 1500 Micro Mesh is equivalent to CAMI (U.S. standard) 400 grit. So, if you want to use Micro Mesh 1500 and 1800, there's certainly no harm. Just don't be led into believing that it's a super fine grit like CAMI 1500.

For a really nice gloss, you just have to be careful about sanding, buffing, and waxing. Make sure you sand well, and remove all scratches from the previous grit before moving on to the next. It can be a laborious process.

For buffing, the old standard of brown tripoli followed by white diamond is what I use. I buff at 1800 RPM with a 8" wheel, sometimes 1200 RPM.

Contrast staining is something you really need to experiment with and find the methods that work best for you. This is also an area where pipe makers spend a lot of time in research and development, so they (we, I) are loathe to give up any hard won secrets.

[ToddJohnson]

For a really nice gloss, you just have to be careful about sanding, buffing, and waxing. Make sure you sand well, and remove all scratches from the previous grit before moving on to the next. It can be a laborious process.

I would add to that that the pipe should be wet down--with water, not alcohol--between sanding stages. This will raise the grain and allow you to knock down any scratches that are essentially just smashed flat, but waiting for an opportunity to pop up from heat, moisture, etc. This simple step will pay huge dividends come finishing time.

Todd

P.S. Don't wet it after sanding with the final grit before you stain and polish, but at every grit up to that final grit.

[pennsyscot]

Thanks for pointing out the differnce with the micromesh grits, Kurt. I feel like a fool, sanding to 1000 and starting over with course grit. It seems obvious now that you mention it. I'm anxious to try Todd's suggestion to raise the grain with water. I had assumed that alcohol was sufficient to raise the grain. Thanks for the great advice, Scot

[Frank]

Thanks for pointing out the differnce with the micromesh grits, Kurt.

I was going to comment on the Micromesh grits sooner, but it slipped my mind. If you divide the Micromesh grit by 3, you get an approximate US equivalent.

[ToddJohnson]

Thanks for pointing out the differnce with the micromesh grits, Kurt. I feel like a fool, sanding to 1000 and starting over with course grit. It seems obvious now that you mention it. I'm anxious to try Todd's suggestion to raise the grain with water. I had assumed that alcohol was sufficient to raise the grain. Thanks for the great advice, Scot

Alcohol based stains were created as an alternative to water based stains precisely because they do not raise the grain. It is, of course, possible that anything wet will raise the grain slightly, but water is going to be the best way to disturb the surface.

Todd

[waterkeeper]

i'm thinking a whiskey glaze or...

would it be a horrible idea to leave my pipe natural and then coat it with carnuba wax? i'm finishing up my first pipe and posting an update video on youtube (genericsoul)

also where would i find carnuba wax?

[kbadkar]

Leaving a pipe unstained with wax is a fine idea. It will color and darken over time, creating a natural contrast.

You can get 100% carnauba wax online from many different places, ebay included. Pimo has it and it's nice company to support. Try "carnauba wax" in your prefered search engine. Avoid anything that isn't a solid block or is intended for car finishes.

[waterkeeper]

i ordered some flake carnuba wax from the eBay gods, I'll post a picture on this thread when i get everything finished to the point that i'm happy.

any ideas for stain still appreciated.

regular wood stain...what are your thoughts?