Taking the dive...need motor advise

[hazmat]

Alright, dammit, I'm building the tool I need. I have the parts list I'm going to need to get, okay there, but I'm NOT okay regarding a motor.

I know NOTHING about electric motors except how to plug them in and turn them on. I'm going to assume a 1/4 HP at 1725 RPM will be enough, considering I'm going to use step pulleys to control speed. But what else do I need to concern myself with when looking for a motor to buy? Amazon.com has some Grizzly motors available that Rad at one point said were rock solid, so I'm leaning towards one of these guys:

MOTOR

But if I can ebay one for cheaper than this, I'd like to.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[KurtHuhn]

I know NOTHING about electric motors except how to plug them in and turn them on.

Since you're going stepped pulleys, I'd use a 1/3 to 1/2 HP motor at 1725 RPM. A 3-step pulley on either side (2", 3", and 4" diameters) will let you run at about 860 RPM (good for final buff), 1725 RPM (buffing, carnuba application), and 3450 RPM (good for metals and such, and sometimes stems).

This one is decent:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?U ... e=electric

If you watch these guys, they have deals from time to time.

For a buffing station for things like pipes, 1/3HP is good. If you start using big hard buffs and buffing big hard things (like metal) you might want to step up to 1HP. However, 1/3 HP at 1725 RPM is surprisingly strong.

[hazmat]

My thinking here is to make one end for buffing and the other end for sanding. Will 1/3 hp be enough to cover both? I'm assuming it'll be fine, I don't have a terribly heavy hand in either operation, just want to make sure before I lay out any cash.

Thanks again, Kurt. As always, you're a scholar and a gentle-pipemaker!

OH! One more question. I'm going to have to wire up something like this, aren't I? I'm sure it doesn't ship ready to roll and I know it won't have a switch on it anywhere. Guess I'm going to have to learn some basic wiring, no?

[JHowell]

I presume you're looking at some sort of shaft like the buffing head Grizzly sells? Another possibility if you keep your eyes open is to get an old lathe head stock, mount it on a bench and use that to hold your buffs or wheels or whatever. If your knowledge of wiring really is zero, you might consider buying a motor with a switch and power cord installed. Wiring a motor can be no big deal, or it can be confusing, depending on the motor. Some motors are set up so they can be wired in several different configurations, for different voltages, reversing, etc.

[hazmat]

I presume you're looking at some sort of shaft like the buffing head Grizzly sells? Another possibility if you keep your eyes open is to get an old lathe head stock, mount it on a bench and use that to hold your buffs or wheels or whatever. If your knowledge of wiring really is zero, you might consider buying a motor with a switch and power cord installed. Wiring a motor can be no big deal, or it can be confusing, depending on the motor. Some motors are set up so they can be wired in several different configurations, for different voltages, reversing, etc.

Jack.. I have a full parts list for what I'm going to build. Kurt listed parts for something like this in another thread on the board somewhere. Keyed shaft, pillow blocks, pulleys, etc. I have a pretty good idea how it's going to go together.

As for the motor, I won't be wiring it myself. I have some friends who can do that for me, but I'm going to ask them to explain it to me as they go, so I have some clue as to what I'm looking at. Thanks for the advice!!

[KurtHuhn]

My thinking here is to make one end for buffing and the other end for sanding. Will 1/3 hp be enough to cover both? I'm assuming it'll be fine, I don't have a terribly heavy hand in either operation, just want to make sure before I lay out any cash.

Oh, without a doubt. As long as your buffs aren't 18-inch diameter monsters, you'll be fine. The motor I use on my sanding station is a 1/3HP Baldor - the ones that used to pop up from time to time on eBay from seller westbestbuy. There's tons of suitable motors on eBay, but you do have to keep you eye for certain things.


- Make life easy for yourself, and buy a base-mount motor. Face mount motors can be used, but complicate things a little when figuring out how to get them on your tool.

- Be sure your motor is single phase and runs on 110V (110~130V). A lot of the good brand name motors, even the small HP motors, will run on 220V also, but watch that you don't get one that requires 220V. It's not overly complex to wire one in, it's just a layer of complication to avoid your first time around.

- Avoid 3-phase like the plague unless you're also willing to spend on the VFD to run it.

- Avoid DC motors unless you want to spend on the drive to run *it*.

- Avoid motors that look like this one. The mount on that looks like base mount, but it's actually not. Under load, it could spin in it's mount. Not cool.

- Look at the duty rating. If it isn't "CONT" it probably isn't suitable. If it doesn't say, assume it's intermittent duty only.


I'm sure there's more, but that's all my coffee-starved brain can muster at the moment.

Thanks again, Kurt. As always, you're a scholar and a gentle-pipemaker!

I'm happy to help. And I'm happy to see this section getting some good use!

OH! One more question. I'm going to have to wire up something like this, aren't I? I'm sure it doesn't ship ready to roll and I know it won't have a switch on it anywhere. Guess I'm going to have to learn some basic wiring, no?

If it doesn't have a switch (some do) then yes. However, most motors will have a diagram on the label or the cover plate. It's deceptively easy, and as long as you don't work with live voltage, you'll be fine. Just remember "hot, neutral, ground" - hot is your voltage supply, neutral is at ground potential, and ground is, well, ground. Here's a decent link with pictures. Very helpful:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... sehld.html

[hazmat]

Wow. Thanks for all that info, Kurt. Good stuff to be thinking of while I'm trying to find a motor. The impulse to tear apart my old drill press is still killing me, though..hehe..

Two questions. Above, where you say "avoid motors that look like this one", do you mean the one in the link you posted earlier?

Next question. Found this guy on ebay. Looks like it might be perfect for my needs and unless this post sends a buncha pipe makers running, I may be able to get it for a song. Looks like it meets the criteria you laid out above, no?

[KurtHuhn]

Two questions. Above, where you say "avoid motors that look like this one", do you mean the one in the link you posted earlier?

Like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0244464238

Which is similar to the one you posted. It's not a rigid mount, it's a "resilient mount". The base actually connects to two hubs on the front and rear of the motor with foam or rubber isolation rings to reduce vibration transfer to the tool. Good idea in theory, but if you're going to use the motor on anything that will be placed under load, the motor could spin in it's mount when the isolation rings start to wear. The torque of starting up a buffing station could certainly do that over time. I avoid that type of mount at all costs - because I don't think it's beefy enough to last. And the last thing I want in my shop is a spectacular failure of machinery.

Instead, go for a rigid base mount like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0233910693
The base is welded to the motor frame. The drawback is some vibration transfered to the workbench or tool where it's mounted, but it's only the light humming vibration, so it's not a big deal at all. It's only enough to cause ripples in your coffee.

Next question. Found this guy on ebay. Looks like it might be perfect for my needs and unless this post sends a buncha pipe makers running, I may be able to get it for a song. Looks like it meets the criteria you laid out above, no?

Actually, it's not a great choice given the resilient base mount - go for a rigid mount instead. Motors with that type of base are more useful for low or no-load applications like blowers and fans in my opinion. Other than that, it looks like it would work.

[hazmat]

Good stuff. I'm assuming that most motor specs will tell me outright whether it's a rigid-mount or not. In any case where I'm not sure, I can always ask the place I'm thinking about buying from.

This is a good start. I'm going to do some web trolling and see what I can find that's affordable.

Thanks again, Kurt. Much appreciated!

Matt

[Frank]

Instead, go for a rigid base mount like this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0233910693

Use Kurt's reference motor above for what to look for in a motor. I wouldn't go less than 1/3 hp.

[hazmat]

Ran across this guy in my motor searching. I know I'm looking for rigid mount, but just curious if this style of mount they're calling cradle mount is acceptable or not.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5K534

I'm going to assume not, simply based on the price.

So I'm on craigslist and I run across this dinosaur. Says it works. Don't really care except for the motor. Would something like this work for the contraption I'm contemplating, considering it meets the criteria?

http://harrisburg.craigslist.org/tls/676774978.html

[JHowell]

I think that's the sort of rubber vibration-isolating mount Kurt was talking about. I'd give it a skip, personally, and watch ebay for one with a welded frame, max around $50, or look for local surplus stores or watch the paper. I've changed over the years from an I-want-it-to-run-NOW assembler of new (or nearly-new) parts into a cheap bastard, though, there are lots of electric motors around. Rubber mounts on a motor won't go bad overnight, probably won't go bad in five years, but who knows? If rubber mounts aren't there they won't go bad ever, your choice. If I saw that motor at a flea market for $25 I'd buy it and use it without a second thought. Buying new, I'd probably look for exactly what I want. A NEMA 56 frame without the Z is, I think what you're after.

[hazmat]

I think that's the sort of rubber vibration-isolating mount Kurt was talking about. I'd give it a skip, personally, and watch ebay for one with a welded frame, max around $50, or look for local surplus stores or watch the paper. I've changed over the years from an I-want-it-to-run-NOW assembler of new (or nearly-new) parts into a cheap bastard, though, there are lots of electric motors around. Rubber mounts on a motor won't go bad overnight, probably won't go bad in five years, but who knows? If rubber mounts aren't there they won't go bad ever, your choice. If I saw that motor at a flea market for $25 I'd buy it and use it without a second thought. Buying new, I'd probably look for exactly what I want. A NEMA 56 frame without the Z is, I think what you're after.

That's what I figured and I understand why it should be avoided, especially at the price of the things. I'm trying to keep an eye on anything in my area that may offer motors for sale to get a used on cheaper. But at the same time, I just want to get this thing put together so I can comfortable make pipes without having to goof around with resetting my two main tools. It'll happen shortly, but I'm having a problem with patience

[Frank]

Ran across this guy in my motor searching. I know I'm looking for rigid mount, but just curious if this style of mount they're calling cradle mount is acceptable or not.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5K534

See how the mounting is connected to the ends of the motor? That's exactly what you don't want.

This could work: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %26ps%3D42

[hazmat]

I may have to bite the bullet and become an ebay member.

So, even if the individual posting something on ebay doesn't offer a "buy it now" option, is it against the "rules" to make them an outright offer on the side for the item? I'd easily offer this guy $50 and be happy with the whole deal. Or is that bad juju?

[Frank]

So, even if the individual posting something on ebay doesn't offer a "buy it now" option, is it against the "rules" to make them an outright offer on the side for the item? I'd easily offer this guy $50 and be happy with the whole deal. Or is that bad juju?

He might take an offer, but it's against ebay policy. Personally, I never accept such offers. It's not worth the hassle of perhaps being booted off ebay.

There's no need to be in a terrible hurry. Motors come up on ebay all the time. You won't have to wait long.

[hazmat]

I thought maybe it was against the rules. Glad I checked first.

It's hard not to be in a hurry, Frank I've finally decided to try to be Dr. Frankenstein here and it will be SOOOOOOO nice to not have to fiddle around in my shop the way I do now when I've got the whole thing put together.

Thanks so much for all the help to everyone who's responded on this thread so far.

[Frank]

This would serve your needs: http://grizzly.com/products/Motor-1-3-H ... 220V/G2527

Another factor to take into consideration is shipping cost. Most ebay sellers will charge actual shipping cost, which, for a motor weighing around 25 lbs costs around $35+, usually more. According to Grizzly's shipping chart, you'd only pay $14.20 shipping, which makes the deal more attractive than a $60 ebay motor with shipping costs of $35+ and usually sold "as is" with no warranty.

[hazmat]

That's a great find, Frank! Amazon.com has these same motors, but for nearly 40 dollars more, and that doesn't include shipping. For some reason, it never occurred to me to check out the grizzly site proper. Thanks. I may just order one and be done with it.

[KurtHuhn]

This would serve your needs: http://grizzly.com/products/Motor-1-3-H ... 220V/G2527

That is not a bad deal at all. In fact, it's downright reasonable. The Baldor 1/3HP motors that I was buying on eBay a while back were $90 shipped. These motors are that price, and have identical specs.

Do yourself a favor, Matt, and request the Grizzly catalog. There's loads of useful stuff in there, and it makes for hours and hours of reading and perusing.