Prefered method for shapping traditional Stummels?

[Briarfox]

Thus far I have had little success turning a stummle with my metal lathe's tool carriage. I Can't seem to figure it out. So what do you guys prefer to use when turning a stummel. I mainly just use a sanding disc for the complete shaping which makes it rather difficult to get the stummel symmetrical. I've been contemplating putting a bar in the tool carriage and try my hand with wood turning tools.

So what methods do you guys you? Anyone have a good resource on using a tool carriage on a metal lathe?

[LexKY_Pipe]

I use a Jet mini-lathe which is a wood turning lathe. I have a jig mounted on it which I use if I'm going to actually turn the stummel and shank. If not, I use the jig for drilling. Then I shape with a sanding disc. No doubt one of the tricks of pipe making is symmetry. I go slow and watch from every angle. I use a pencil to shade areas that are high and sand the pencil marks away. I think practice makes this process easier.

[RadDavis]

Craig is right. The only way to get better at symmetry is practice.

Even if you turn the bowl and shank as far as possible on the lathe, there's still that pesky heel and the bowl/shank join to contend with, and these are the areas where lack of symmetry shows up most often.

Rad

[Briarfox]

LexKY Thanks for the pencil idea, I'll try to use it as a tool, along with practice to get better symmetry.

Rad, What's your most common method for shaping? Do you mainly use a sanding disk for the entire process?

I'm wondering if I should practice turning the stummel as much as possible on the metal lathe or just put the time into perfecting sanding on a disk.

[hazmat]

Check your work often has already been mentioned. One trick to go along with checking your work is to have some plain background that's a high contrast to your work to check against. I've found a plain blue TV screen works *very* well but isn't necessary. Any plain colored background will work. Just look at your work with the background in place and things will jump out at you. A caliper is also useful to an extent if you really need to measure but I generally don't use one.

[kkendall]

I use a pencil to shade areas that are high and sand the pencil marks away.

Interesting... I do the opposite. I mark the low spots. If I mark the high spots, the marks are gone as soon as i hit 'em with the sander or files. If the marks are sanded off, I've lost all my frames of reference.

I guess you learn a way and go with it.

[JHowell]

Briarfox, I think you're on the right track when you say you're going to try putting a bar in the toolpost to use woodturning tools. That's what I do. You can establish a cylinder very quickly with the carriage and cross feed, but it takes chisels/scrapers to make a nicely flowing bowl, unless you're REALLY good with an Etch-a-Sketch.

[Briarfox]

What would be a good chisel to get? I've never used a wood chisel with a lathe.

[RadDavis]

Rad, What's your most common method for shaping? Do you mainly use a sanding disk for the entire process?

.

I shape with a sanding wheel.

Rad

[JHowell]

Kurt will give the best advice on turning tools. I use scrapers, actually, which I use to call chisels. I think Kurt uses some gouges as well as scrapers. I've had some scary things happen with a gouge but scrapers have never bitten me, but it's probably a matter of knowing what you're doing. It's worth noting that there's a difference between shaping, say, a billiard or bulldog, which -- the latter especially -- is worth shaping to a certain extent on the lathe with woodturning tools -- if you drill on a lathe. That's different from shaping a non-cylindrical shape or shaping the bottom of the bowl and the shank/bowl junction, which has to be done with something else. Also if you drill freehand or with a drill press.

[KurtHuhn]

If you've never used hand tools to shape wood on a lathe, you are *definitely* going to want to practice before actually attempting to make a pipe out of briar. Briar is one of the most unforgiving woods. A minor slip-up with a gouge or scraper, and the wood will grab the tool, slam it into the toolrest, flip it into the air, wrench the briar from the chuck, make the most godawful noise you've ever heard, and give you a heart attack.

Practice on some inexpensive hard wood like maple, apple, or hickory. Cherry is good to practice with, but it turns completely different from briar. Personally, I'd start with maple. It's forgiving, hard, dense, and not expensive.

The tools you'll want to start with are:
- bowl gouge (AKA fingernail gouge, it's the safest profile of all gouges, 1/4" is most useful)
- skew (1/2" is good to start with)
- parting tool (1/8" wide is most flexible)

As you get more experienced you may add more, but these are the turning tools I use the most when turning just about anything.

Now, a word of caution. Most books or sites you read on wood turning assume a couple different things. One is that you're not turning briar. The other is that the wood you're turning is at least partially green. Certain cuts, like using a skew to make a planing cut, are very dangerous with briar - at least until you've got some hours of experience under your belt. When using a skew, I use it mostly as a scraper, and I always keep a super fine edge on it.

[LexKY_Pipe]

Kurt from your description, have you had at least one heart attack when turning briar???

[KurtHuhn]

Kurt from your description, have you had at least one heart attack when turning briar???

When I first started turning, I jumped right in on briar.
Heart attacks. Check
Soiled undies. Check
Ruined toolrest. Check.
And one broken window.

I only started getting good at turning once I stopped trying to do briar, and took a step back to read and watch videos of other turners. Some of it seemed to be a little counterintuitive, but it works. Of course, that didn't stop me from keeping some of my bad habits - some of which I'm sure would make pro turners swoon with shock.

[pierredekat]

Kurt is right on the money. And I use those exact same chisels almost exclusively.

But there's one other tool that I personally have found useful, and that is a 1/4" round scraper, which I use to shape inside the bowl.

I pre-drill everything, so I need something to get the pre-drilled hole concentric with the outside surface, so that's what I use to tweak the inside of the bowl a little.

But it's real forgiving inside there, and that's why I like it.

Also, when you look for chisels, make sure that they are "high speed steel" (or "HSS") and that they have some sort of recognized name brand on them.

Turning tools are one of those things where you get what you pay for, so be prepared to spend a little money.

And when the time comes, you will want to learn all you can about sharpening turning tools, particularly about how to sharpen them without burning out the carbon.

That's where a wet-dry tool sharpener, like this little dude here, comes in handy, at least for the rough-sharpening. Then you'll want to switch off to hand sharpening on a fine whetstone to get your tools razor sharp.

[Frank]

I only started getting good at turning once I stopped trying to do briar, and took a step back to read and watch videos of other turners. Some of it seemed to be a little counterintuitive, but it works.

Briarfox, if you've never done woodturning before, this is an excellent series to watch: http://www.createtv.com/CreateProgram.n ... &Index=ALL.
Keep an eye out for when it comes around on your local PBS station. I think there are a couple of dozen episodes in all. I had most of them recorded on my cable box, but accidently deleted a few. It's taking me forever to transfer them to tape, then to my PC and then to DVD.

[Briarfox]

Thanks for the info guys, I must say you have me slightly nervous about wood turning. I think I'll take your suggestion on the maple, Kurt. And thanks for the link Frank, I'll check it out.

So does anyone out there use the tool carriage on their metal lathe? It seems like it would be such a precise way to start shaping the stummel.

I'll have to get a gouge, skew and parting tool and give it a go (When I get the blasted oil leak in my lathe fixed!).

[JHowell]

As I said, it all depends on your etch-a-sketch skills. It is very precise, so much so that you'll wind up with a bunch of little steps unless you have or develop extraordinary coordination to fuse your control of the X and Y axes into one flowing motion. It's really more practical to use the X and Y to establish some general parameters and then stick a bar in the tool post and use a scraper to blend. Also, just as it's possible to stick a gouge in the work freehand and have a "moment," it's possible to turn the handle too fast and stick a tool bit and make a bang. There's learning to be done no matter how you choose.

[LexKY_Pipe]

JT Cooke shows how to use a metal lathe and carriage and the etcha-sketch method in the following video. Take a look.

http://www.chicagopipeshow.com/media/videos/JTCooke.rm

Looks like the link is currently down. I'll post when its up.

[Briarfox]

Thanks, I was looking for that link, Lost it in a hard drive crash awhile back.

[Briarfox]

Well I took a wood turning class this past weekend so I could get a little heads up on how the tools are used. It was a ton of fun! Green wood cut so easily. Now I'm defiantly a little nervous about using tools on briar!