How to apply carnaubawax?

[Heinz_D]

Everybody is talking about nice smooth finishes and how to do it: Grind off any scratches up to a grid of xxx, stain the briar, if you want to, seal the stain with what ever (shellack, danish oil, or anything else), buff with brown tripoli, white tripoli and then coat with carnaubawax... So far so good!

Now I've made a couple of pipes and I must say, that I'm not able to get an even coating of the glossy shine with carnaubawax! After the first buff with wax the pipe looks very nice with a high glossy shine - after a few times taking the pipe in my hands - without smoking it! - ther are some droopy areas, but not regular!

So how can I provide from this issue? Do you buff with "more" wax? Do you buff for a longer time? Is here anybody who can explain how to apply carnaubawax exactly? After buffing a pipe several times I'll get areas with a glossy shine as coated with lacquer - after more buffing it'll get better... But it must be possible to get this coating after the first buffing and durable, or not?

I've 3 buffing wheels, one for each kind of wax and a polishing machine.


Thank you for any advice!

[KurtHuhn]

What I do:

- sand using cushioned discs up to 2000

Okay, let's stop here and let me explain, because I just know that Todd and Trever are looking at this and shaking their heads. I have a setup that uses 3-inch diameter cushioned sanding discs. I spend the most time at 220 refining the shape, then move on up the line. For a given pipe, it only takes a moment or two at each grit, and the time investment in higher grits is lower than that of lower grits. For instance, I might spend 20 minutes refining the shape at 220, and only 20 seconds sanding at 2000. It does make a difference though, so I'm willing to put in the extra 2 minutes or so per pipe.

Moving along:
- spit coat of shellac
Again, it makes a real difference.

- brown tripoli
Used on a soft cotton single-sewn 8-inch wheel spinning at 1800 RPM. You should be able to really see the shine come out now.

- white diamond
Used on the same kind of wheel as above (but not THE SAME wheel) but turning at around 1200 RPM. The shine deepens here, and contrast in the grain should really start to pop.

- carnuba
The tricky part. Carnuba is not forgiving to mistakes or errors in procedure. IT is also unforgiving to weather conditions - heat and humidity will make a mess of things. Excess coldness will make it difficult to apply. I've found that at around 70 degrees F, an 8-inch buffing wheel at 1800 RPM, using a light touch, and keeping a keen eye, will produce the best shine. I might spend 5 or 10 minutes applying carnuba to a single pipe - just going over the pipe againa nd again, hitting spots that arent' quite right, and really spreading the wax around. For a longer lasting shine, you should try to lay the carnuba on as thick as you can get it.

Carnuba is really tough to explain. You can probably get a good technical description, but you really have to go by "feel" more than anything. Too much pressure will rub carnuba OFF a pipe, and not enough pressure won't apply anything. Spin the buffing wheel too fast, and you might not be able to apply wax no matter what pressure you use. It's really an area where experience is helpful.

- final buff
This stage is very, very important. I went out and found the softest buffing wheel I could for this step. It's a 6-inch wheel, about 2 inches wide, made of cotton flannel, and I turn it at around 500 RPM. You want to polish the wax, not the pipe, so you need to keep speed and pressure down so you don't burn the wax off the briar. This evens everything out and creates a fine, hard finish that is a royal pain to photograph.

Now, don't get me wrong, a carnuba finish isn't going to last forever. It is wax, after all, and wax is sensitive to heat and moisture - which you have in abundance on pipes. But you can make it last longer by making sure you have a good substrate for the wax - a good smooth surface that's already a little glossy. A good polish with brown and white compounds will ensure this, and the use of a spit coat of shellac will take it even further.

(please, everyone, save the shellac flames for a different thread)

[bluesmk]

Shellac flames....come on, come on then, do tell, and start the thred!
Dan
Gabrieli pipes

[bvartist]

(please, everyone, save the shellac flames for a different thread)

Shellac flames???? Shellac doesn't burn, that's just the alcohol its dissolved in!

sand using cushioned discs up to 2000

Quick question Kurt. Where do you buy discs up to 2000? I can only get up to 800 for the set I have. Which is ok for briar but I'd like to have higher grits for stems.


Speed is highly important when applying carnuba. Too low of a speed and it won't melt and spread properly, too high and it will burn off! Never thought about a difference with ambient temperature though, but it makes sense.

David

[KurtHuhn]

I get them at woodturnerscatalog.com, and I think I recently saw Woodcraft carrying them too. They are NOT CHEAP, so be prepared to shell out real money for them. Totally worth it, however.

[Calumet]

Hi Kurt,

Do you have a buffing machine with adjustabe speed?
And where does one find these?

I only found machines that have a fix speed off +/-3000 rpm
Do you think they are any good?

kind regards
Frank

[KurtHuhn]

I actually use my lathe for most sanding and buffing operations, since it is adjustable for speed. However, I'm in the process of building a setup using an electric motor and a set of pullies to make it adjustable in the same ranges that I use on the lathe. This will be a little more flexible for my uses, and it will be trivial to setup a dust collector on.

Fixed speed buffers would be tough for me to use given my process. Not impossible, just difficult. Personally, I wouldn't buy one, and I'd build my own or use it as an excuse to get a nice wood lathe.

[bvartist]

I only found machines that have a fix speed off +/-3000 rpm
Do you think they are any good?

I used a converted fixed speed grinder for buffing when I started. They work ok with the polishing compounds. Too fast for applying and buffing carnuba though. It could be done, but you have to use extremely light touch on the buffing wheel or it will burn off the wax. Like Kurt, I use my lathe for sanding and buffing.

Thanks Kurt for the info on the sanding discs. I need to order some 1000 grit at least!

David

[Heinz_D]

Hello alltogether!

Kurt, thank you very much - I think I understand now my problems with carnauba! I'll try it out next weekend on my last Billiard.

[Frank]

@Calumet

3000rpm is too fast.
As a newbie with pipes I thought I could manage with my 3500rpm buffer as I did with my knives. Bad idea!

Unless you constantly use a very deft & light touch (major pain), you WILL scorch the briar & also the stem at +3000rpm. Fortunately my belt grinder has a buffing arbor on the other side of the motor running at 1750rpm.

You can rig up a faster motor to run slower with a pully system as mentioned by Kurt et al, or get a slower running motor, or get a variable speed, constant torque motor (pretty expensive).

If you can't find a slower running motor in Belgium, you might be able to order from Germany, but shipping could be expensive.

My thanks again to all you pipe guys, now that I've learned that I should have been buffing my knife handles on the slower machine.

[Calumet]

Hi Frank

Thanks for your advice.
I did build me a buffing machine from an inexpensive (20€ ) woodlathe
and he real Beal three way buffing system.
It works like a charm. and it runs with 4 different speeds.
The woodlathe was useless for pipemaking cause no morse connection so I kept only the motor and case.
The metal part that came with the Beal Buff I could connect easely
on the motor with an simple adjustment

For real sometimes we all have to use 'Mc.Guiver' style to reach our goals.

Bless

Frank

[Briarfox]

I just finished my first pipe! However I'm not sure if I applied the Wax correctly. It was very shinny from the tripoli/white diamond so I'm not sure if the wax was put on correctly. I used the advise from this thread and applied it with a light touch. I'm using buffing wheels on a metal lathe. I'm not sure what the speeds are but I had it on the fastest setting.

What are the signs of Carnuba wax? Is it just a maintained glossy look that doesn't fade?

Also how do you strip off Carnuba wax? I'd like to refinish some of my pipe and am unsure how to do this past a new coat of Carnuba wax.

Edited for typo!

[bscofield]

Also how do you trip off Carnuba wax?

Ahh... see now that's a delicate process that only the Great Pipemakers of the world know and they aren't talking!

[LexKY_Pipe]

Ah ben, you are being very naughty