Help, where to buy the best briar?

[sethile]

Hello folks,
Well, it's great to have options, but how to sort through them? I wish I had the money to lay in a good sample from each source, and then buy in quantity from the best, but I don't have capital to do that.

Options I've seen in smaller quantities are Pimo, Mark Tinsky, Tim West, all of which I've tried, and now the Algerian from Andrea at PE looks very interesting. I hope to try that soon. I'm not at all unhappy with these options, in fact I've gotten very good blocks from Tinsky and West, and very acceptable from Pimo.

I've alrso heard great things about the Algerian, Mimmo's cutting at Romeo Briar, and I'm also very interested in the briar Michal Parks is importing (also from Italy). How does it compare to Mimmo's, and how do they both compare to the other options?

Aging is another complication. A lot of these sources say their briar is ready to use. Can that be trusted? Seems like most pipe makers say they keep their stock aging for some period of time before diving into it.

Cost versus quantity and minimum orders are another big factor. Mimmo needs a $600 minimum order plus shipping, which makes that tough for a noob, unless several of us might want to go in together on an order. I have pricing info if that appeals to anyone. It does to me....

What about the larger quantities from Tinsky and others? Is that a good way to go to get the costs per block down, or is there more firewood when buying that way?

So many options.... Any insights from those of you who have seen more of these offerings, and perhaps worked with and ideally smoked them would be greatly appreciated.

[JSPipes]

I'm interested in getting a few blocks from Mimo to have a look at. If you decide to order and are short some, shoot me an e-mail and let me know. I'm good for 4 large plateaux at the moment.

Joel

[bvartist]

Scott,

I can't shed much light on many of your questions. But I can say I do like the idea of extra aging on the blocks. I purchased Aaron's 29 block lot off ebay a little while ago and its been cut and dried for about 5 years. Seems like some very decent wood to work with, and I haven't run into any moisture problems or tannins or anything. I always used what I bought right away before so this was the first chance I got to work with aged briar. Its algerian stuff he got from Yazid. Sold now through Pipemakers Emporium.

I've thought about buying in quantity from Tinsky. I haven't used his plateaux but his ebauchons are good. But I normally only buy enough to last me a few weeks.

I might be interested in a small group buy, either from Tinsky or Mimmo, shoot me a PM with the info and I'll see if its financially feasible!

David

[ToddJohnson]

Hi Scott,

Over the course of the past seven years, I've used wood from multiple sources, and Mimmo's briar is, hands down, the best. I won't use wood from any other mill. I give Mimmo my patronage and a guaranteed 200 block order annually, and Mimmo in-turn cherry-picks blocks for me throughout the course of the year. It's a great system, and it hinges on loyalty. That's the sort of relationship you eventually want to establish with a briar cutter if you intend to be doing this years down the road.

The only singular drawback to Mimmo's wood is that, comparatively, it costs a fortune. If you're making $150 pipes, you're going to have fully 1/3 of your retail price tied up in materials. That's a really tough margin to work from.

My suggestion would be to increase the quality (and consequently price) of your wood as your skill level increases. You may want to start with briar from Mark or Tim (not Pimo), move to briar from Andrea at PME, and eventually work up to briar from Mimmo, or the Tuscan stuff that's coming in now (talk to Jeff Gracik, I think). That would be my advice.

Best of luck,

Todd

FWIW, I'm either going to import some more blocks from Mimmo soon or visit him at the mill. There may be opportunity to purchase some wood if a couple of you are interested, but it would need to be one or two dozen blocks at least.

[Butch_Y]

This is something I too have been struggling with for the past two weeks now as I watch my briar supply dwindle away.

I do want to get another bundle of cheaper ebachaun just for practice but I would love to be able to start taking some of the shapes I do well now and make some really awesome pipes.

I put Mimmo's pricelist on my site for all to view.
http://fantasticsales.com/pipes/mimmo/romeobriar.doc
(I make no claim to accuracy as he may change it but I just got it in sept. 2006 so it's good for a bit.)

I really dont see alot of difference in pricing between the 3 most popular briar sellers listed in this thread and in fact, it seems Mimmo may be cheaper for the better quality. The only thing that I don't know is shipping and customs. Anyone have an idea on that for a minimum order?

For now PME seems the best for me (imho) and they are the ones who will receive my patronage because they did good service so far in the past.

[bvartist]

This is something I too have been struggling with for the past two weeks now as I watch my briar supply dwindle away.
I really dont see alot of difference in pricing between the 3 most popular briar sellers listed in this thread and in fact, it seems Mimmo may be cheaper for the better quality. The only thing that I don't know is shipping and customs. Anyone have an idea on that for a minimum order?

Something else to consider, here's a recent post by Kurt.

If you are in the US, you should be aware that US customs is really cracking down on this type of import, and it is pretty much requiring import permits for briar. Your shipper will need to post your permit number on their shipping label, and may even need to include a copy of your permit in their paperwork. Add to the fact that briar sometimes comes from places of less than "most favored nation status", and you can get some serious red flags as far as customs is concerned. Before imprting briar, be sure you've got your bases covered, and that your supplier knows what he needs to do in order to clear customs.

Also, you guys should know that US customs will not, as in NOT, return the briar to the supplier. They will, instead, destroy the wood, and not notify anyone. Sad, and strange, but true. I narrowly escaped having a couple thousand dollars worth of wood destroyed early this year, so I know it can happen.

So I'd think any larger orders would need to be placed by someone who has the proper paperwork to handle it without a customs entanglement. One of the reasons I've so far stuck with sellers in this country.

David

[sethile]

Thanks for all the replies...

Mimmo mentioned shipping will typically run somewhere around $2 per block. Once the order is placed he comes back with a firm quote including the cost of the order and shipping and then you transfer, or wire the money to his account.

I had not considered the customs situation. That's an excellent point. Mimmo mentioned using UPS, and it turning up at my door a week after he receives payment. He mentioned nothing about customs. I think UPS has some in house customs brokerage facility.

My guess is that between several of us we could make up the minimum order, assuming we can nail down the customs questions. Should I look into this or is someone else in a better position to tackle it?

Todd, what is your timeframe on your next purchase?

[sethile]

Just got off the phone with the UPS Customs Brokerage folks. Mimmo would need to submit copies of the invoices and some other paperwork stuff on his end, but there are no restrictions or additional paperwork needed here on our end. Should sail right through....

I assume Mimmo is up to speed on all this but I'll E-mail and ask him about it to be sure. I think the key is UPS, which can handle this through their in house Customs Brokerage services. Could also be helpful that we are dealing with Italy in this case.

Meanwhile, do any of you know anything about the briar Michael Parks is importing from Italy? Looks interesting....

[pipemaker]

After trying unsuccesfully for 10 days to speak to someone or have them return my calls, I was finally contacted by someone at A.P.H.I.S.

Here is some basic information that I was able to obtain.

Re: PPQ form 585

You can list as many Countries of origin as you wish.

Erica arborea is acceptable for the scientific name.

Blocks is acceptable for the type of timber.

You can check both without bark and with bark. Add a note that shipments may be a combination of both.

You can check both less than 15 pieces and more than 15 pieces. Add a note that the quantity may vary from order to order.
(I didn't even want to get into an order of exactly 15 blocks)

Check both heat treated and air dried. Add a note that the blocks were boiled a minimum of *** hours and air dried a minimum of *** years.

A copy of the import permit needs to be enclosed with the shipment by the supplier.

I was also told that briar that is imported with the bark on, requires certification from the shipper that the wood has been heat treated.

I additionally inquired what would be considered an acceptable form of certificate from the supplier, if an 18 hour boil is considered sufficient heat treatment for purposes of importation, and if shipments that include more than 15 pieces of briar with the bark on are subject to any additional requirements or documentation before they can be imported.

The person at A.P.H.I.S. who could answer these last three questions will be gone until Monday, but I am not holding my breath for an answer.

I hope this does not discourage anyone from importing briar, but it appears necessary to follow these procedures to the letter in order to avoid difficulties with A.P.H.I.S. and/or U.S. Customs.

I will post any additional information as I receive it.

Mike

[sethile]

Thanks for sharing that info, Mike... I remember some similiar phone calls with US customs while working on another project. 8O

I think having the Timber Import License would be helpful, and perhaps essential when dealing with some of the other countries that export briar. Certainly makes sense to have one if your doing this with a varity of vendors. It sounds to me like buying briar from Italy may not be as big an issue, especially when going through UPS's U.S. Customs Brokerage Services.

I have E-mailed Mimmo again to see if he can shed any light on this. Depending on what he knows about the process I may also talk to UPS again.

Anyone else care to share any details about the possible pitfalls of importing briar?

[flix]

I've purchased briar from Italy, through an Ebay auction. The briar was very good, but, it took a couple of fortnights to get here! No problems with customs without having any kind of paperwork whatsoever.
--Michael

[ToddJohnson]

Hey Guys,

I've got to check with Mimmo and Teddy to see if the dates will work, but I'm just going to go to the mill sometime in November I think. I'll pick up an extra sixty to one hundred blocks. I've already got 2 e-mails asking to reserve about 30 pcs, so if you want some, let me know. Minimum is 12 blocks. Please don't e-mail me about two or three blocks. Prices are somewhere between $35 and $45 per block depending on size. Perhaps I can get that down a bit though. I'll chat with Mimmo this week and see.

Todd

[sethile]

Wow, sounds like a great trip, Todd! Would love to do that someday. Thanks very much for the offer of getting some stock for the rest of us. I'll see if I can manage it.

Mimmo also got back to me and indicated that he has recently shipped to the US using UPS and had no problems. An import license was not required. UPS only needs the invoice and the address of the buyer. Not sure if this is strictly legal or a grey area. I think US customs is dealt sqaurley through the UPS brokerage system, but it may be this is all flying under the radar of the A.P.H.I.S.

[Nick]

Michael Park's stuff is excellent I've gone through about 5 or 6 of his blocks and they were all well grained and have very minimal flaws in them.

[JSPipes]

Todd, I sent you an email a few days back and haven't heard back from you. I'll assume that you go it. Just let me know when it's time and I'll send you what you need for my order.

Thank you for doing this for us!
Joel

[sethile]

Michael Park's stuff is excellent I've gone through about 5 or 6 of his blocks and they were all well grained and have very minimal flaws in them.

Thanks very much for the report Nick! Great to hear from someone who has used it.

[StephenDownie]

Michael Parks' briar is very decent and a good bang for the buck. Re. Mimo's briar I've heard he cherry picks the best for the big name carvers. Does anyone know what the quality is like for those he doesn't know? I'm concerned in dropping $1000+ in briar and getting what I could get anywhere else. I've got a waiting list for my top grades and haven't been able to find the blocks with the grain for it.

[geigerpipes]

Steven

Mimmo is very good at what he does..that said he is like you say occupied with lots of good customers and not the only good cutter out there...+ his prices are double or more of what you have to pay at other places and with that in consideration I have been hesitant to put in anorder with him again...
Like Eltang once told me he never spends more than 5 $ a block...

Just my cents

Love
www.geigerpipes.com

[smokepiper]

Here is one big blocks decent wood good grain fair prices. http://www.briar-pipe.it/ and this one i haven´t tried myself yet.. http://www.calabriapipe.com/eng/prodotti.html this url is very nice blocks for the price of 13-16 euros per block. http://www.laradicasrl.it/

[sethile]

Wow, great to see some other options, Ronny, thanks! Lots to follow up on.

I think it's very reasonable to expect that the cutters are justified in saving out their best materials for their best customers, but hopefully also with a mind to developing some new "best" customers too... This could be a good argument for going through folks like Todd, that have those relationships and are willing to buy extra.

In E-mailing with Mimmo he seems very willing to work with new pipemakers, so long as they can order at least $600 worth. I think in part he needs to learn what you're looking for, and the new customer needs to know what the options are. He suggested ordering at least a few of each cut and grade and some different sizes to get a feel for what he offers. I'd love to do that, just don't have the funds right now.

So far I have done very well buying from other pipemakers, but I suspect if it were me I would face a huge temptation to reserve the very best pieces for my own work. Of course they are likely also eating the very worst. Anyone have any insite on how that works? Of course, at best it's a crap shoot as it's always a surprise to see what lies within these little gems....