Dust Collection

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:25 am

Does anyone mind describing what their dust collection equipment consists of? I am currently using a shop vac with a hood on it and not getting good results at all.

I am looking at buying a 650 CFM 1hp Jet and was wondering if anyone had any insight into if that is adequate (or recommendations on what other machines you use).

I plan to use it with one machine at a time. Will a machine like the Jet be able to handle say 10 or 12 feet of straight 4" duct? I have an arrangement set up so that the tools can run straight against the wall so there is not a need for any bends in ducts going to the collector. I assume that is most efficient?

This is a crude diagram of what I am thinking of for a setup. Those with experience with this, do you think a 650 CFM collector will hack this?

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:52 am

FWIW, a friend of mine who worked in a cabinet shop for a while said that whenever they tried to use duct work with the ridges in it that it cut down on suction considerably (the turbulance I guess). He said using tubing with a smooth surface on the inside was the best. I think he said they used PVC. And, while discussing shop size and things of that nature with him, he thought that the 1hp delta system at Lowes would have been more than enough for a workshop of my size.

that's his $0.02...

JSPipes · Post by **JSPipes** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:01 pm

John, that'll be plenty of power. Even overkill.

I've got mine running with a bunch of flexi hose. It's hooked up to the bandsaw (there's a dust port on it) and running to a large hood right at the sanding disk. I don't use it at the lathe as the operations I use that tool for generate chips that are easy enough to pick up with the shop vac, not much in the way of dust there.

I also have a dust filtration (Delta, though Jet offers one too) system hanging from the ceiling. It does a real good job of pulling the fines out of the air.

Joel

flix · Post by **flix** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:33 pm

Hey John,

I think you would reduce the pipe length by putting your dust collector between the benches. That's what I would do...

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:13 pm

bscofield wrote:FWIW, a friend of mine who worked in a cabinet shop for a while said that whenever they tried to use duct work with the ridges in it that it cut down on suction considerably (the turbulance I guess). He said using tubing with a smooth surface on the inside was the best. I think he said they used PVC. And, while discussing shop size and things of that nature with him, he thought that the 1hp delta system at Lowes would have been more than enough for a workshop of my size.

that's his $0.02...

Thanks Ben I was thinking of PVC but was concerned that static electricity and dry dust might be a fire hazard. Maybe my set up will not produce nearly enough dust for that to be a concern? I was thinking of going with thin walled metal. From what I have read that is best to reduce turbulance.

I also have a dust filtration (Delta, though Jet offers one too) system hanging from the ceiling. It does a real good job of pulling the fines out of the air.

I was wondering about those too. That is probably cheaper than putting an exhaust fan in the wall.

think you would reduce the pipe length by putting your dust collector between the benches. That's what I would do...

That is a good point. I could have a hood on the lathe to use when I shape. I could detatch the DC from the duct going to the other tools and attach it to the hood by the lathe. Shaping is really the only time I create large amounts of fine dust at the lathe. That and buffing.

So my next question is how important is it to have the 5 micron or 1 micron bags as compared to the 30 micron that comes stock with the Jet and Delta 650 cfm models? Have any of you found a need to get bags other than those that came with the DC?

JSPipes · Post by **JSPipes** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:43 pm

Not yet. I've been happy with the bag that came on it.

I guess you could decide that based on the grit that you use when doing most shaping. I typically go from 40 to 60 to 100 to 220. The bag that came with it does fine.

Joel

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:39 pm

ArtGuy wrote:Thanks Ben I was thinking of PVC but was concerned that static electricity and dry dust might be a fire hazard. Maybe my set up will not produce nearly enough dust for that to be a concern?

Jon, just run a grounding strap from the PVC to a spike in the ground, or to a conveniently placed water pipe. That'll take care of that pesky static shock problem.

StephenDownie · Post by **StephenDownie** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:37 pm

I have this: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 42401&ap=1 setup next to my work area for the fine dust and also use the shop vac for my disk sander and belt sander. I have a pretty small workshop 20 X 10 and a larger dust collector would just be too loud in such a small space. At least the one's I've heard are. This: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 42401&ap=1 is also very handy for use with the shop vac.

Butch_Y · Post by **Butch_Y** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:05 pm

My wife says if one of these things will vacuum the house I can get one. What do you guys think?

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:25 am

Yeah, sure. Why not. :whistle:

BriarBrian · Post by **BriarBrian** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:12 am

John,
Do you empty your shop vac on a regular basis and clean the filter out? A clean filter is a must. Also it will help if you have gates at all the stations, close the ones your not using and open the one gate and you will have full power to the station you are working at. Thats alot cheaper than buying a Delta. If you have the system open the whole time it reduces the amount of flow alot because it is trying to suck at all the stations at once. Id just put gates in and keep your filter inside the vac cleaned out. Also if your using the bag type filters, get rid of them and get a pleated ridgin filter, they work 100% better than the paper filters do at removing dust.

I have a shop vac I use at my belt sander and after shaping 2-3 pipes I have to clean the pleated filter or it doesn't suck away the dust at all. After I clean the filter it works like a charm.
Brian

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:42 pm

I have a 14-gal / 5.5 HP Shop Vac that I use as dust collection. It's a wonder. It has tons of suction, and is more than sufficient for my workshop. For ease of use, I find that a combination of the Shop-Vac High Efficiency Drywall bags and a cloth pre-filter over the pleated cartridge filter provides the best balance of suction and longevity. That way the pleated filter doesn't get clogged, and all the dust is contained in the bag. I can run like that for many pipes before I even need to consider checking the bag.

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:50 am

Well I went ahead and bought a collector. I propably got one much bigger than I needed . I was on the fence between this Deltaand this one from Pen State. The Penn State was 1 hp / 850 CFM where the Delta is 1.5 hp / 1200 cfm. After the mail in rebate the Delta ended up 25 dollars more than the Penn State after shipping was added. Both come with a 1 micron bag.

The delta 50-760 is what I ended up getting. For those intersted there is a nice review of it here, http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/d50-760rvu.html

I liked how the dust ports could be mounted either up or down (I mounted them up) and the clear bottom chip bag. I also liked how it has a rather small footprint yet there is room inside the base for a trash can type cyclone jobber to fit underneath. All of the other collectors did not have that and thus the addition of a cyclone would have to take up more floor space. I also liked how the two 4" dust port could be removed and you can use a single 5".

It assembled literally in about 20 minutes with one wrench and a screwdriver and seems very sturdy. The suction is incredible compared to my 4.5 HP shop vac. I bet if I peaked into the 4 inch tube it would suck the glasses off of my face. I might have to tie a saftey line to my waist just in case

For 329.00 before the 30 dollar rebate I feel like I got a pretty good deal and don't anticipate having to ever move up. I bought mine at Lowes in town. It is about as loud as one would expect however it is still quieter than my shop vac. Or at least it is not as high pitched and screaming. I tested it last night and was working right next to it without much trouble. Soon I will work on a short duct system to move the collector a little farther away. It is not a pretty machine (though it seems most DC's are not) but it sure will do the job for my little shop.

I appreciate everyones advise on this.

John
www.crosbypipes.com

StephenDownie · Post by **StephenDownie** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:32 pm

Nice one John! That one should last a few years!

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:08 pm

Hey John,

I have a Jet DC1200 for my shaping and buffing wheels. You'll definitely need the blast gates as Brian suggests. Otherwise, you won't really get any suction. I can recommend the Long Ranger dust collector remote and remote blast gate switches. Whenever you pull open a dust port, it completes a circuit and turns the machine on. When you close it, the machine switches off. It saves a lot of time.

Also, if you're going to be spending any significant amount of time in the shop you really should get an air scrubber. This mounts to the ceiling and sucks up airborne dust that gets into your lungs (down to 1 or .5 microns depending on the unit). If you've ever blown dark brown snot into a tissue after working, you've seen the stuff an air scrubber will take out of the air. I think the Jet, the Delta, and the JDS can be set to run for 2, 4, or 8 hours after you've been in the shop and then automatically shut themselves off. I would recommend a combination of these two things for any professional shop.

Todd

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:32 pm

Thanks Todd, I was looking at the blast gate switches and was wondering if they last. It sounds like you have good performance from them.

So, that leaves two questions for you.

1. When is your new site going to be ready

and

2. The pipe pictured on it now, is that stem made of horn?

BriarBrian · Post by **BriarBrian** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:16 pm

Yes Todd is also correct on the air scrubber, I didn't have one at first and boy did I have some funny looking snot!LOL

I got the Jet air scrubber and it works great. If you do get one, mine came with a 5 micron outer filter and a 1 micron inner filter. You can replace the 5 micron filter for pretty cheap, but I heard the inner filter is alot to replace. I haven't ever replaced my inner filter I just blow it out . But the outer filters are pretty expensive if you get them from Jet or their dealers. What I use for my outer filters now are from Home depot. They are 12"X24" and filter down to 5 microns also and are a fraction of the cost. I don't remember the name but I think for the same amount as the original Jet filter I can buy 10 of the ones from Home depot. Home Depot only has this type filter in this size, all the other manufactures don't make this size, at least home depot doesn't carry them, so you will know it when you see it.

Brian

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:30 pm

yeah air scrubber might be next for me. Well, before that I suppose I will need to put more outlets in the garage...ahem...er um... shop. :thumb:

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:44 am

ArtGuy wrote:Thanks Todd, I was looking at the blast gate switches and was wondering if they last. It sounds like you have good performance from them.

So, that leaves two questions for you.

1. When is your new site going to be ready

and

2. The pipe pictured on it now, is that stem made of horn?

New site next week, and that stem is antique bakelite. I had 6" of it and it is now gone. Too bad.

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:57 am

I finally got done preparing some work for two upcoming art shows and was able to get back into the shop last night to work on pipes and test out the new collector.

I tell you that thing rocks! Way more scution than my shop vac. I drilled and shaped a pipe last night and had hardly any chips or dust left when done. The collector took it all right off the wheel / drill bit and straight into the dust hood next to my lathe. This was a great buy.