general pipe making questions

Larch · Post by **Larch** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:03 pm

I’d like to get opinions on a couple of things and 'think out loud'. There are a lot of ways to "drill" a hole. I see where a few pipe makers are using those spade-type woodworking drills to make a hole. Am I right, or is the goal to have a hole that has a rounded bottom? After all, you don't want square corners in the bowl, right? I imagine that would make it difficult to keep the bowl clean. I am thinking that a "ball" ended end mill of the right ID might be ideal to get the rounded cut in the bowl I desire. This would be economical instead of having a drill ground to the correct shape. Besides which the depth of a hole on a pipe is maximum 1-1/2 inches.

From what I can see, most pipe makers use a lathe because it minimizes the number of machine tools they need. A lathe can of course be used to make or finish up a hole, but it is easier to do on a milling machine or very sturdy drill press. A lathe is also a lot less expensive than a milling machine. I've been kicking around the idea of using my South Bend Lathe instead of the old Craftsman wood lathe because I can control the speed so much better.

I'm still working on the theory end of pipe making. Would anyone suggest working with a good piece of cherry wood or other hardwood before destroying a good piece of briar?

Thanks for the help.

marks · Post by **marks** » Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:27 pm

Hi Larch. Regarding your question on spade bits, I grind them to the profile I want on a grinder, then touch them up by hand on a stone to make sure they are fairly sharp. I can get the profile I want, and they are inexpensive. They will not leave a really smooth bore, and if you want a smooth bore, you will have to sand the bowl after drilling. However, I have had no problem with burnout or cake development on the pipes I have made so far. They develop a nice, even cake even without the inside of the bowl being glossy smooth. You can purchase modified drill bits for boring tobacco chambers, but these are very expensive (at least to me they are). I have not tried end mills for this task yet, but I have made specific profiles on my spade bits that are different than what you would find on an end mill.

There are many ways to drill a pipe, including drill press, lathe, or some other type of set up. The harder thing for me is getting the shape of the pipe correct. This takes time to master. I started with a few pre drilled kits before I purchased any tools. That way, if I had no talent, or no interest in spending the time necessary to hand carve a pipe, I would learn this with minimal investment.

Hope this answer helps, good luck in your endeavors.

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:50 am

I use a lathe to drill with just for the reason you stated, it limits the tools I have to use. However, I can see how a drill press with a self centering vice might be a little easier to deal with. I would think that would be the case if you were mainly doing non-traditional, freehand shapes. That was actually suggested by Mark Tinsky on another board I am a member of as well.

A lathe would be an advantage if you are doing a lot of classical shapes.

I have tried using standard twist drills and then rounding the bottom with a shaped spade bit with less than impressive results. It always left a rim at the bottom of the bowl where the spade bit was just a bit smaller in diameter to the twist drill. I would have to spend come time sanding the bottom of the hole to rectify this. I switched to spade bits after that.

I would think that if you could bought a 3/4" round carving burr (Lee Valley Tools sells them) and a 3/4" twist drill bit, you could drill all but a fraction of the chamber with the twist drill and correct the taper with the carving burr.

Of course you would have to take into account that a carving burr that size will run around 20.00 and a HSS twist drill that size another 20 dollars and you may still need to spend some time sanding the area where one transitions to the other.

A spade bit and a bench grinder is about 25.00 total and they work fine for me until I can afford the Ken Lamb drills.

John
www.crosbypipes.com

marks · Post by **marks** » Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:04 pm

Good point about the drill press, Artguy. I am using the exact setup you describe. I do the bowl last, and stick a wooden skewer down the draft hole and I can feel when the spade bit gets near the bottom. After that, I use a mirror to see the bottom of the bowl, then drill a little more and check again, repeating the process until I get the exact depth. It works, and I get my draft hole and bowl to line up virtually every time.

Regarding lathes, I have a Taig on order to do stems, but I do not plan on buying a woodworking lathe in the near future, if at all. I currently shape my stummels with a belt and disc sander, then move to hand filing and sanding. Yes, it takes longer to make a pipe, but I really enjoy the process of shaping by hand.

One thing I have learned about this hobby, is that there are a lot of different ways of getting to the same destination. That is part of what makes it so fun and interesting for me.

Post by **Tyler** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:39 pm

Hey Guys,

Glad to see a little conversation in here while I was gone. I was off to Colorado skiing Keystone and Vail with the Youth Group. It's a tough job, but someone has to do it!

To the point, I have a ball-end mill that I have used for tobacco chambers and it works fine. Your thoughts on why normal drill bits are correct, they don't make a nice bowl shape. The only reason I haven't made mention of a ball-end mill (yet?) in the instructional places on my site is that I rarely use it. The reason being that a perfectly round bottom is rarely what I want. I usually want a more tapered shape. The taper not only smokes well, but allows for my variation in shaping while still retaining plenty of wall thickness. Also, ball-end mills can be very expensive. As such, spade bits are a very nice way to start because they are easily customized to whatever profile is desired, and they are very cheap.

As for drilling on a lathe, it is convenient because of all the other jobs the lathe will perform, but it does offer at least one feature that I prefer over a press. The ability to see into the drilled holes without removing the block from the chuck. This allows you to see exactly how much deeper you need to go to have the daught hole perfectly on the bottom of the tobacco chamber. With a press, the drilling mechanism will not allow you to get your eye over the hole. You can use a mirror, but it is not as convenient as just sliding the tailstock back and looking in the hole.

As for which lathe to use, if I had a nice sized metal lathe, I would use it exclusively. No need for a wood lathe.

Finally, to answer the pratice woods question, I see no need to do a practive wood first. I personally like the motivation of having a pipe that is smokeable when I am done. I think there some folks like the security of an inexpensive practice piece, and if that is how you feel do a practice piece. Personally, though, I could never be motivated to do a practice piece with nearly the concetration and detail as I do with briar. That said, I do think it very reasonable to buy a few blocks of inexpensive briar. $4 blocks are not terribly painful to make mistakes on.

Great questions!

Tyler

TreverT · Post by **TreverT** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:48 am

Actually, I don't think you'd want to gived up your wood lathe even with a big metal one, if you do a lot of hand-turning. We have a large metal lathe here which is really odd in having a swing arm that can be used to mount a hand-turning tool rest, and if it didn't have this it would be really difficult to do decent hand-turned pipes on it. Some guys are excellent at the dual-knob-twisting that's required for cutting a nice curvy shape on a metal lathe, but I am not! (Imagine trying to design a pipe bowl using an Etch-a-Sketch...)

Post by **Tyler** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 11:09 am

Trever,

Since I do not have a big metal lathe yet, I might be mistaken in my assumption about them. I assumed one could insert a rod into the tool post instead of a cutting bit, and use that for a chisel rest. If that is not true then I too would never be willing to give up my wood lathe. I definitely want a way to turn using chisels.

FWIW, I think I made this assumption from something I saw in P&T. In the photos of Butera making the winning contest pipe design a number of years ago, it looked like he was using a chisel on a metal lathe by way of a rod in the tool post.

I wonder if there are any modern production metal lathes that offer a wood turning rest? (Like the Taig does, only for the larger machines.)

Tyler

TreverT · Post by **TreverT** » Fri Mar 12, 2004 3:23 pm

Yes, you can do it that way too, I just don't find it nearly as easy. Try comparing turning something on your Taig using the woodturning rest versus the tool rest with a rod sometime and you may see what I mean. I prefer the straight swivelling quick adjustability of a woodturning rest - even the metal lathe that we have (which has a woodlathe-style tool rest) isn't as easy to turn with as my old Jet was, simply because the tool rest "tower" is always getting in the way.

Post by **Tyler** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:32 pm

Good points. Thanks for the info Trever.

Tyler

ArtGuy · Post by **ArtGuy** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:02 pm

I wonder how difficult it would be to drill the chamber with a standard twist drill and then adjust the taper on the lathe with a small bowl gouge?