Layout/Alignment problems

achduliebe · Post by **achduliebe** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:13 pm

Okay, here are a couple of pics of my modified drill press vise. It's nothing fancy by no means...pretty frankenstein looking but it is very functional, which is all that I am concerned with.

sethile · Post by **sethile** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:27 pm

Ok, I get it now. Wow, that is a great idea! Thanks so much for the pictures, and description! It looks like you used heavy angle iron over the top of the original vise? Maybe those are the original vice faces themselves. It would be cool to have a different set of custom vice faces made of angle iron with the hex nuts welded on, because you could then remove the entire thing if you wanted too.

Either way it's cool and I think I'll try to do this. My vice is an upper end quick release deal I bought from a machinist years ago. I don't think I would want to modify that one permantly, but angle iron over the top or, or replaceing the original faces might work. If not I could get a cheap but accurate vice and modify it.

Are you completely happy with how your drilling ends up using this? I've been assuming there is are enough unpredictable varibles in the process where no amount of precision in the set up will completely settle the matter. Perhaps my perception is completely jaded because of using the longer bits. It looks like you could use this same jig and technique to drill the airhole first, or the chamber first, so if for some reason if I was not getting the depth matching up the way I want with drilling the chamber first, I could switch up the order. The main thing is this would completely eliminate potential set up issues in terms of where the holes meet side to side, and that has been my big issue lately.

Very cool Bryan,

I'm going to try it!

achduliebe · Post by **achduliebe** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:22 pm

Scott-

You are absolutely right, it is angle iron. I totally forgot to mention that...sorry. I took the jaw faces off and gave them to my brother as a template for the holes. I still have those jaw faces and can interchange them at will.

I am very satisfied with this setup for the time being, but am also anxious to get my lathe up and running. There is still a bit of setup time to do the drilling on this rig, but the alignment is easier to accomplish. You can't just through the block in there and go to town, you still have to check over everything and line things up. The main thing with this configuration is that you have marked the bottom of the tobacco chamber correctly on both sides of the block, so that you know where to position the pointed eye bolts.

The reason I opted to drill the tobacco chamber first is so that when I drilled the airway I could see the intersection there. It would be better, I would think, to drill the tobacco chamber second on a lathe because you could pull the tailstock away and look into the chamber to see if you had gone far enough. But, as you know, this is almost impossible on a drill press without interrupting you alignment. So, I just make sure I measure the depth of the chamber on the outside of the block a couple of times. When I have the warm and fuzzies, then I go to it.

Hope this helps.

sethile · Post by **sethile** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:26 am

Oh yes, thanks, it helps a lot... I'll take my drill press vice into work, and get some angle iron, hex nuts, and eye bolts. I think if I get it all laid out someone in the metal shop down from my shop can weld the hex nuts onto the angel iron for me.

This could be just the thing to help me survive till I can get the lathe! Thanks again Bryan!

achduliebe · Post by **achduliebe** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:53 am

Scott-

Glad to help.

josh_ford · Post by **josh_ford** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:57 pm

great idea, very similar to what I was thinking, good to see it in action.

Josh

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:41 pm

Seeing those pictures, the idea looks like a great one. But, I have one problem, don't you run into a problem where stummel is too big to rotate? I.e. the bowl portion being too large and bottoms out into the bottom of the vice. I think I'd like to try something similar if I could find a nice tall vice or mount the pin points a little higher or something, know what I mean?

achduliebe · Post by **achduliebe** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:31 pm

Definately Ben, it does have it's limitations. The area you have there to swivel the block is limited. That's why I can't wait to get my lathe setup and get a modified chuck on it like the Lamb chuck.

mahaffy · Post by **mahaffy** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:51 am

A really well-thought and tempting idea. I mean your idea was great, and I'm tempted to try it on my lathe. I have a 4-jaw that I glommed from a wood lathe that I can mount on my cutesy mini metal lathe; if I were to mount those nuts on frames that bridge the two jaws of the chuck --- because as Ben said, a little depth would be good --- then when the jaws were loosened, the pins would remain untouched. Turn the block and reclamp. Very nice. Thanks. But boy I wish I'd saved up a little more and bought a lathe with a longer bed!

sethile · Post by **sethile** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:12 am

Ok, I got my new Bryan like vice jaws made. First I did a practice run on a 2x4 and it worked out great! The alignment was near perfect! Then I went ahead and bored a stummel that I hope will be a billiard when it's finished (I'm having a heck of a time shaping it though). The holes aligned nearly perfect, but not quiet as well as the 2x4. Still, it's much better than my other efforts.

I think I also came up with a good way to get the depth relationship better. I like drilling the draught hole fist, but that is reallly tricky on the drill press because you just can't see into the chamber while it's being drilled, at least not without taking it out of position. Here is a method that seems to work. I drilled the draught hole first, then pivited the block over on my new cool Bryan type vice arangement and secured it. Then placed an old drill in the draught hole and started drilling the chamber. When I hit the bit that was locating the end of my draught hole I stopped. I use a 5/32 drill for the draught hole so I set my depth stop on the press to exactly 5/32 lower than where I hit the old drill bit. Finished drilling the chamber, and then swung the table out from under the drill where I could see into the chamber well. The chamber was exactly at the bottom of the airhole.

I have had a heck of a time finding a 5/32 brad point locally and will need to order it, so I ended up using a split point on this project, but at least it was not an aircraft bit this time. I think once I get the brad point the bulk of drilling my problems will be minimized, at least for the time being. This is still a heack of lot more work, and less dependable than a lathe would be!

Thanks for the help on this. Some great information from all of you! I highly recommend Bryan's vice modification for anyone using a drill press. It might not work on all pipes, but it sure seemed to work well on this one!

RocheleauPipes · Post by **RocheleauPipes** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:59 pm

Hey here's a thought. Check your drill press (I think you said you used a press). I have a Delta mid sized press and it is pretty poor. I had to fiddle with to correct the issues. First issue was that the clamp screw to secure the table in position changed the angle ever so slightly. Secondly, the spindle went off angle slightly the moment I brought the spindle down to drill. I use a lathe for all the dirlling though so it's not crucial for me.

Otherwise, as others have said, either your bit is wandering or your blocks are not really as square as you think, or the vise is not sitting as squarley as you think it is.

Good luck,
John

mahaffy · Post by **mahaffy** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:09 pm

Well, duh on me! John may be right. Now that he mentions it, I've run into two identical problems with floor-mount drill presses that were slightly off. The solution seems crude, but was effective: to whop the spindle with a very large leather or wood mallet to straighten the travel.

RocheleauPipes · Post by **RocheleauPipes** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:19 pm

mahaffy wrote:Well, duh on me! John may be right. Now that he mentions it, I've run into two identical problems with floor-mount drill presses that were slightly off. The solution seems crude, but was effective: to whop the spindle with a very large leather or wood mallet to straighten the travel.

Okay John. We want the specs on the "Whop The Spindle" technique. And we want them now!

: )
John

Post by **KurtHuhn** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:07 pm

I damn near threw my 9" Delta drill press out the door of the shop this afternoon. I was trying to drill some finish planed cocobolo for a shank endcap and the press was vibrating all over the place. I couldn't get a clean hole to save my soul - then it vibrated so bad that it snapped the 1/8" boad in half lengthwise right along the grain. I was so angry I couldn't see straight. I really need to get a decent drill press. I'm just thankful that I don't use it to drill stummels any more.

mahaffy · Post by **mahaffy** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:38 pm

Actually, I worked in a machine shop when I was a kid. We had to "true up" the shaft on the drilll press. It does sound crude, but it works; you give it a healthy "whop!" and then try the square on it, and keep doing that until it's absolutely squared up. Second time, at the Naval Academy Band, the instrument repairman was contemplating having to buy a new drill press, and --- ta da --- I came to the rescue with my vast knowledge of 'chinery.

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:41 pm

John, you are a bleedin' genius!

Rad

mahaffy · Post by **mahaffy** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:34 am

Aw, shucks, fellers. . . .

sethile · Post by **sethile** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:52 am

Yes, you guys are right, the press could be part of the problem. I had to true it up a bit when I got it (20 years ago). Hmm, come to think of it, it took a little fall recently. I'll check it out and give it a whomp or other adjustments if needed. Thanks!

sethile · Post by **sethile** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:21 pm

Follow up on this thread... The drilling on #8 is bang on! A great big thanks to all of you! Truthfully, I think every single issue mentioned in this thread contributed in one way or another. I found the press did need truing. The shorter bit helped, but still drifted. The brad point nailed it. Apparently my blocks were slightly out of square, and so was one of my squares....

So, the new drill press vice modifications make this SO much easier. Also got a new combo 8" disk, 1" belt sander that is fantastic. That in combination with the shorter (and brad point) drill, and along everything else mentioned has made my drilling operations much less hit and miss, and hopefully much more consistant.

So, it looks like my chronic alignment issues are solved. Now if I could just say the same for my symmetry and other shaping relating issues!

Look out folks #8 is getting a hand cut stem, my first! Wow, and I thought I had "issues" before! 8O

This forum is a tremendiuos help and encouragement. Thanks again for all the help.

hazmat · Post by **hazmat** » Fri May 26, 2006 10:14 am

Bryan... in this jig you worked out, what are the pieces you have welded to the angle iron refered to as? I'm having a bunch of drilling problems lately that I know are due to not being able to line up my briar properly, so I'm going to throw one of these together. Thanks!!!

Matt