Drilling tobacco hole & draft tube

[Pegoda]

I know I have seen this on the forum before, but have failed to find it. Other than personal preference, is there any reason to drill before carving or after. Thank you.

[RadDavis]

No.

Rad

[JHowell]

Don't mind Rad, Bob, he's one of those 5-pipes-a-day guys and you can't spare more than one word when you're doing that.

If you shape first, then drill, you can exercise a little more flair in taking advantage of grain as you shape. But, it's a little steeper learning curve to be able to handhold the stummel and connect the dots when you drill. If you drill first, you can use the squareness of the block and the rigidity of your machine to connect those dots. You have to do more guessing about what the grain is going to do inside the block, but a greater percentage of your pipes will be drilled dead center right off the bat, if you've got your blocks square and your lathe/press set up right.

Shaping first is more of a Danish approach, drilling first is more of an English/Italian approach. And, any shape that has part of its bowl/shank turned on a lathe will probably be drilled at the same time. There are prominent makers who use both techniques. Tom Eltang shapes first. Paulo Becker drills first, though he cuts the block down quite a bit. It probably comes down to how you learn at first. Paulo pretty much started me, so I drill first. I had no idea there was another way. Tinsky started Rad, so I think Rad drills first. Right, Rad? Yes or no will be fine.

[RadDavis]

Yes.

Rad

[JSPipes]

I prefer to drill first too. I find it easier to line everything up.

[ArtGuy]

I drill first as well but only for lack of tooling and because I have yet to see the other method demonstrated. A significant advantage I can see is that if the stummel is not drilled you have the freedom to change the shape at will. This would allow you to carve through and around flaws and you would lose less pipes due to pits etc. You would also come out with a much higher percentage of smooth finishes.

Once you drill the chamber you are limited to that and must work within those parameters.

[achduliebe]

John,

I have not seen the 'drilling after shaping' method demonstrated in person, but I did buy a video called 'The Great Danes'. In that video, Lars Ivarsson drills the pipe after shaping. It is amazing because he is guiding the tailstock of the lathe in with his right hand and holding the stummel with his left hand. He makes it look so effortless. And to tell you the truth, he does not appear to be using a spoon bit either. I need to examine it more closely, but it appears he is using something more like a reshaped silver and demming bit. Now...granted, I could be wrong...I have been wrong a few times in my life.

Regardless, it is amazing to see him do this. The video is not the best quality but it is a pretty good video all in all.

-Bryan

[Pegoda]

Thanks.

[bscofield]

I drill first as well but only for lack of tooling and because I have yet to see the other method demonstrated. A significant advantage I can see is that if the stummel is not drilled you have the freedom to change the shape at will. This would allow you to carve through and around flaws and you would loose less pipes due to pits etc. You would also come out with a much higher percentage of smooth finishes.

Once you drill the chamber you are limited to that and must work within those parameters.

John, have you seen Trever's video on "drilling a Talber briar" yet? He shapes then drills. He doesn't do the chamber "by hand" per'se but what he does and shows will give you the perfect hint as to what people are doing. I definately want to give it a try when I get my grubby little hands on a lathe.

[JHowell]

John,

It is amazing because he is guiding the tailstock of the lathe in with his right hand and holding the stummel with his left hand.
-Bryan

Hmm, that's an important piece of information. I thought the guys who did it this way would just stand behind the headstock and grab the pipe in a hara-kiri grip and control it that way. Using a center in the headstock would help. I remember seeing a picture of one of Eltang's stummels before drilling and he had lines drawn on the outside to show the various axes for drilling. It's almost moot on avoiding flaws, though; it seems that I lose as many, if not more, stummels by drilling into flaws in the tobacco chamber.

[bscofield]

John,

It is amazing because he is guiding the tailstock of the lathe in with his right hand and holding the stummel with his left hand.
-Bryan

Hmm, that's an important piece of information. I thought the guys who did it this way would just stand behind the headstock and grab the pipe in a hara-kiri grip and control it that way. Using a center in the headstock would help. I remember seeing a picture of one of Eltang's stummels before drilling and he had lines drawn on the outside to show the various axes for drilling. It's almost moot on avoiding flaws, though; it seems that I lose as many, if not more, stummels by drilling into flaws in the tobacco chamber.

Jack, you should check out Trever's video too... Very good shots, good angles, all real easy to see how it works and what not.

[achduliebe]

Hey Jack,

Yes, I beleive Lars had drawn cross axis on the back of the stummel for the draft hole and on the bottom of the stummel for the tobacco chamber. I remember Todd Johnson mentioning this and also that he put a dab of epoxy at this cross axis point, to accept the point of the live center in the tail stock. I have seen a couple of pipe makers do it without using the tailstock as a guide, in videos. What was amazing with the Lars video is how lightly he appeared to be holding the stummel. He had it drilled in no time...just amazing.

[ArtGuy]

I have seen it demonstrated on video and talked at length about it with makers who work that way. I know enough about it to give it a try, however, I would rather hold off until I can get together with a real live person so I could ask questions and such. That seems to me to be something I would rather have a live demonstration of before trying.

Maybe I am just a wuss

[ArtGuy]

I have seen it demonstrated on video and talked at length about it with makers who work that way. I know enough about it to give it a try, however, I would rather hold off until I can get together with a real live person so I could ask questions and such. That seems to me to be something I would rather have a live demonstration of before trying.

Maybe I am just a wuss

[bscofield]

I have seen it demonstrated on video and talked at length about it with makers who work that way. I know enough about it to give it a try, however, I would rather hold off until I can get together with a real live person so I could ask questions and such. That seems to me to be something I would rather have a live demonstration of before trying.

Maybe I am just a wuss

I have seen it demonstrated on video and talked at length about it with makers who work that way. I know enough about it to give it a try, however, I would rather hold off until I can get together with a real live person so I could ask questions and such. That seems to me to be something I would rather have a live demonstration of before trying.

Maybe I am just a wuss

OK OK we heard you! Geeze...

[ArtGuy]

I have seen it demonstrated on video and talked at length about it with makers who work that way. I know enough about it to give it a try, however, I would rather hold off until I can get together with a real live person so I could ask questions and such. That seems to me to be something I would rather have a live demonstration of before trying.

Maybe I am just a wuss

[achduliebe]

Well, I guess I am a wuzz to John...or maybe I just don't want a briar block embedded in my forhead...hmmm.

[bscofield]

And stop crying in public too... geeze! It was one thing to do that in Chicago, but at least there you were hammered!

I don't think Eltang minded too much. He said the tears wouldn't staing his shirt... but the snot... that's another story.

[LexKY_Pipe]

Bryan

From whom did you buy the "Great Danes" video. I'd like to see it and perhaps buy one.

[achduliebe]

Hey Craig,

I bought it from a local tobacco shop called 'The Tobacco Merchant'. They did not have a price on them so the guy just sold it to me for $5.00. If you would like, I can check back with them this weekend and get one for you. He had a stack of them. I beleive the video was produced by Uptown's...yeah and I think the narrator worked/works at Uptown's.

-Bryan