Sanity check critique desired (thanks in advance)

[LatakiaLover]

Pretend you have no idea who made these, and comment accordingly.

Assume they're not beginner's pieces but were made by an established pro.

Muchacho gracioso.


.

[Sasquatch]

Well, I mean, I've been following those threads, George, and yes, there are, by our standards, issues with the shaping (most specificially it looks like the stummels where shaped, then a stem put in, the the stummels adjusted for final fit which.... probably is exactly what did happen).

But lotsa guys don't see this stuff, don't understand the relation between process and result, don't see this as a lazy touch.

And.. lotsa guys just don't care.

I just bought a Castello last week. A 65. (Can't steal the pics but here's a link for now: https://tabaccheriacorti.com/gb/pipes/2 ... pe-65.html)

Smokes... great. It's really nice, big, solid, great draw, great flavor. A great pipe.

A perfect pipe? No.

But then, it was 214 Euros too, like, affordable luxury.

I do get a little pissy when something marginal is offered for 900 bucks, but.... whatever, if someone wants to buy it... they can.

Myself? I try to do stuff right, and I have now cultivated a group of buyers who appreciate that, but even then, I could make a duck-bill billiard or a pinched shank bent and someone would buy it.

[LatakiaLover]

But lotsa guys don't see this stuff, don't understand the relation between process and result, don't see this as a lazy touch.

And.. lotsa guys just don't care.

I vacillate between A) trying to create an awareness of the finer things by explaining & demonstrating them; and B) wondering why anyone, anywhere, bothers with more than the barest functional minimum at any time, with anything.

(During the latter contemplation I often find myself wondering if such laziness is a manifestation of 21st century Instant Gratification Culture where selfie obsessives make headlines, and having greater awareness than a gnat of anything not on your iPhone is considered a character flaw; or if humans have always been wired that way and it's only recently become obvious.)

[Sasquatch]

My kid is going into university, into a science.

And has no idea what calculus does. None.


And while that freaks me the hell out, utterly...

... the university does not care.


So why should she, just cuz her stupid old man does? No, because it's a hugely useful tool. But a lot of work to learn to use. And... the university does.. not.. care if she has done a calculus course or not. And they don't care if she takes one in her first year.


I dunno.


Yeah, people don't want to extend themselves in this way. So be it. I have found the journey of aesthetic philosophizing (compared to my own "professional" analytic philosophy career especially) fantastically interesting.

[LatakiaLover]

My kid is going into university, into a science.

And has no idea what calculus does. None.


And while that freaks me the hell out, utterly...

... the university does not care.

Ouch.

So why should she, just cuz her stupid old man does? No, because it's a hugely useful tool. But a lot of work to learn to use. And... the university does.. not.. care if she has done a calculus course or not. And they don't care if she takes one in her first year.

I dunno.

It is becoming more obvious with every passing year that colleges and universities are deep into must-generate-huge-revenue territory to continue to exist, so are increasingly adopting a business first, education second approach.

From offering silly fluff degrees, to hugely lowered standards to GET those degrees, a high percentage of their product is worthless, anymore. Literally so. It's all about the tuition money, baby...

(The only subjects & degrees that are immune to such human meddling are the ones Mother Nature is in charge of. She refuses to budge. The easiest way to identify them is whether or not mathematics plays an indispensable role in their comprehension.)

Yeah, people don't want to extend themselves in this way. So be it. I have found the journey of aesthetic philosophizing (compared to my own "professional" analytic philosophy career especially) fantastically interesting.

I have a feeling your daughter will discover that being unprepared for higher math is a buzzsaw... after which she might start listening to her old man a little more.

[sandahlpipe]

I suppose it’s similar to how music works. Initially, music was a way to transmit important knowledge in a society without writing, and to preserve with it a bit of culture. The function gave it form. Over time, and with the advent of new instruments, new sounds could be produced and as musical notation entered the picture, complexity was added. Then it turned into more of a reflection of a part of the human soul. Beauty followed as a result of preserving the right things cumulatively over time in a culture.

Pipes also started with functional significance, but have been preserved and kept relevant by providing enjoyment. I look at pipes similar to music in that some people like music because it keeps them awake while driving (functional) while others appreciate the inspiration that comes from enjoying beautiful things.

Where I think education comes in is at the point of distinguishing between something with functional value and something of aesthetic value. There’s a sense of raw aesthetic in each person that can see something beautiful in a well-executed pipe. But it requires training just like you’d need training to fully appreciate a symphony. Because there isn’t much aesthetic training in today’s culture, it’s easy for some to be enamored with a fad instead of understanding timeless beauty.

The good news is I think this falls fundamentally on the artisans to produce beautiful pieces. Over time, the best things tend to be preserved and the worst fall by the wayside. If classical music is the measure, it could take decades to gain that appreciation, and I think the Danish carvers demonstrate that well, now that some have become legends. Unfortunately, in the interim, people will also get suckered into buying pipes of functional value at Art prices. But the test will inevitably be in what’s still being sold and traded in 50 years because it’s still beautiful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LatakiaLover]

The parallels to music are probably accurate.

A tiny voice in the back of my head keeps reminding me that if nothing else humans are tribal, though, and Castello is held up as the Holy Grail by enough smokers to comprise a "critical mass" of approval. i.e. few people are willing to "go against the flow" regardless of what they actually think out of a deep-seated fear of upsetting the tribe.

Thanks for your input, Sas & Jeremiah. You've given me more stuff to think about.

[Sasquatch]

Nobody holds Castello as the holy grail of shaping though.... it is understood by those who know/care that the whole neo-classical thing is defined a little bit just by this idea that the result is due to process and the process isn't a true "factory style" process - it's a hallmark of sorts, the wonkiness.

Making factory-style stuff with a hand-made process is a much more American idea, to go back to "schools" of pipe thought.

Castello is held up as generally making a very reliable smoker, which in my experience, they do. I don't buy much else if I'm in the mood for a high-performance pipe.

[danilo]

Let me share a story,

I live in Brazil, where 200us is like 1000us for you guys. ( Our economy sucks). I went to Canada, and bought 1 pipe that had flaws from a montreal company, but it was cheap for a canadian and damm expensive to me. Few days latter, after trying that pipe, went back and got me a nice experience with no flaws pile. Why? Because the first was a great smoker. If i haven't 10 others, i would have bought 3 or 4 with flaws (visual).

Also, i own one great looking irish pipe with fundamental issues. I didnt know how to buy a pipe before start making one/ reading here.

The problem is what was said. Consumer's dont know what they are buying and the standards are low on massive production.


Ps. The canadian company was a great buy experience, they pointed out the flaws on each pipe i was looking. Even without me asking, just to be sure i k ew what i was buying and why the prices were so different. Who does that in a commercial shop ?



Sent from my MI 8 Lite using Tapatalk

[JMG]

That first pipe is powerfully ugly. Glad to contribute.