Help with sharpening spoon bit?

[Bluesytone]

I'm trying to enjoy my new J. Alan spoon bit, but it's duller then a slow church service. Even at slow rpm and baby stepping the tailstock on my lathe it gets hot wants to light a fire. The wood shaving are very powdery as well so I seem to have gotten a dull one. I can feel about a 1/4-1/2" of sharp edge near the chuck end of the bit of the leading flat side, but the rest of the edge doesn't feel like it has a sharp burr at all. I've tried using my pocket diamond stone to get more of and edge but i'm not seeming to have much luck getting the bit to perform better. Can someone with experience on these particular bits give me some advice on sharpening? I did find a video online sharpening a very similar spoon bit but trying it his way didn't provide any better results. I'm assuming it's operator error and could use some help

Thanks for you help!

[DocAitch]

Are you using a pilot hole? I drill my chamber with 1/2” standard jobber’s bit to almost the full depth of the chamber, stopping just a hair short. The spoon bit (I use JAlan also) cuts very nicely with big clean shavings.
A couple of strokes with a diamond hone on the large flat (the one that bisects the bit, not the two relief flats on the circumference) refreshes to a nice edge. Messing with the outside circumference of the bit screws up the cutting geometry and ruins the bit.
Trying to bore a hole without a pilot doesn’t work very well.
DocAitch

[Bluesytone]

I'm using a 7/16" pilot like he uses in his demonstration video and I sink it down to just above the depth i'm after for the chamber. I also tried pulling the flat of the bit across my diamond stone. Are pulling across your diamond hone towards the leading edge or pushing towards it?

[oklahoma red]

I would suggest working on the flat with a fine file first so as to actually remove a little metal. Then, follow it up with the diamonds. If you indeed did get a dull one then you'll die an old man before you get the edge back with a diamond hone alone. I would clamp it in a vise and stroke away from the centerline of the bit. Just be sure to keep the file flat on the flat of the bit. Diamond hones are somewhat like a steel for knives. Once you get the edge the hone will help keep it.

[sandahlpipe]

I made my own spoon bits after having similar issues with the Ken Lamb bits. I ended up grinding material off the back of the bits to keep them from rubbing. When I made my own, I ground a relief on the back of the bits and that makes a big difference.

[Bluesytone]

I made my own spoon bits after having similar issues with the Ken Lamb bits. I ended up grinding material off the back of the bits to keep them from rubbing. When I made my own, I ground a relief on the back of the bits and that makes a big difference.

That seems a little crazy for me at this point since I just dropped the cash for this one. It's possible I got a bad one too I guess.

[sandahlpipe]

Yeah. Just try sharpening it with a file and then hone the edge. Bear in mind a spoon bit enlarges a hole, so it doesn't need to be razor sharp to do the job like a regular drill bit. The main thing is to make sure it's the cutting edge coming in contact with the briar and not some other part of the bit.

[DocAitch]

I'm using a 7/16" pilot like he uses in his demonstration video and I sink it down to just above the depth i'm after for the chamber. I also tried pulling the flat of the bit across my diamond stone. Are pulling across your diamond hone towards the leading edge or pushing towards it?

Sounds about right to me.
I stroke toward the edge, but Oklahoma Red and Jeremiah have more experience and knowledge of these machine things than I do. I guess my bit is sharp enough.
You might consider sending the bit back for an exchange. Contact your supplier and explain the situation. I did not consider sharpening mine until I had done 15-20 stummels
DocAitch

[caskwith]

If it's dull right off the bat, send it back!

[Bluesytone]

Turns out it was operator error. I got a hold of Jeff and figured out that I should't be trying to use it for drill first at all and it was getting too hot on me.

[DocAitch]

Drill first? A hole is a hole, and I cannot comprehend that the shape or amount of wood around it has anything to do with the function of the drill. If you have a decent pilot, it should drill the hole.
Enlighten me.
DocAitch

[Bluesytone]

Drill first? A hole is a hole, and I cannot comprehend that the shape or amount of wood around it has anything to do with the function of the drill. If you have a decent pilot, it should drill the hole.
Enlighten me.
DocAitch

Hey Doc,that is what I was told.. I haven’t had a chance to use it again yet and try freehand but maybe tomorrow... if you have a chance to use yours and can try it that would be great

[LatakiaLover]

Doc --

I'm confused that you're confused. Jeff's bit is designed to enlarge a conventionally drilled hole, not bore into wood itself (meaning without a pilot hole). It's never been otherwise in all the PipeWorld that I'm aware of.

[Bluesytone]

So for a bit of clarification in the discussion, I used the bit freehand when I first got it and struggled a little so I after watching so,e other folks do it on the inter webs I decided to try it in a drill chuck in my tail stock with a block my 4 way chuck. I drilled a 5/16 pilot and then at around 400 pm tried using the tailstock to advance the bit. Even going slow was getting the bit hot enough to start burning the wood. I tried sharpening the bit with very littl succes. The designer of the bit says I shouldn’t use it this way. My brain tells me that it shouldn’t make a difference... as long as the bit is sharp and I have a pilot hole, but I’m going to just use my spaid bits for drill first and try freehand again with the spoon and see how it goes.

[LatakiaLover]

A 5/16" pilot hole is too small. Use the largest regular bit you can get away with as a pilot, so the spoon bit doesn't have so much material to remove.

[Bluesytone]

A 5/16" pilot hole is too small. Use the largest regular bit you can get away with as a pilot, so the spoon bit doesn't have so much material to remove.

I’ll give that a try. I got the 5/16 recommendation from Jeff Gracic’s video demonstration on using his bits, but he uses them all day I’m sure.

[sandahlpipe]

Do you have a picture of the bit? Something about this scenario seems off to me. The only thing I can think at this point is that the tailstock may need to be out of the way to allow you to drill freehand so the cutting edge of the bit can cut all the way down. If that's the case, it may not have been designed to cut the hole at 180° from the feed but maybe a few degrees off.

5/16 is a large enough pilot for the spoon bits I use. Sometimes, though, I go from that into the smallest spoon bit and then enlarge it to the size I want.

[LatakiaLover]

Another thought: Slop and/or misalignment of the tailstock relative to the chuck's axis of rotation would result in burning / bad cutting, also.

[DocAitch]

Doc --

I'm confused that you're confused. Jeff's bit is designed to enlarge a conventionally drilled hole, not bore into wood itself (meaning without a pilot hole). It's never been otherwise in all the PipeWorld that I'm aware of.

LL, we had already had the discussion about the pilot hole - I recommended 1/2”; the OP stated he watched videos with J Alan using 7/16” pilots. My only thought is that the OP’s pilot holes are not deep enough. I can think of no circumstance where drill first or shape first will have any bearing on the function of the spoon bit, unless it is some misalignment issue as noted in the last couple of posts.
On reviewing the thread, I note that the pilot hole used by Bluesytone has shrunk from 7/16” to 5/16”.
DocAitch

[Bluesytone]

Doc, I misspoke in my earlier post. I was in fact using a 5/16 pilot not 7/16. I just watched his video again and he is also using 5/16 .. which is where I got my bright idea i guess. I thought it handy because I already had the 5/16 out for drilling mortices.

LL, that's a good thought about misalignment. I will double check that, but I haven't had any alignment issues with other bits drilling the mortice, draft or chamber on the same lathe. I've tried this twice now and in both cases gave up about half way in to the chamber and just finished with a same size spade bit successfully. I've got a couple practice blocks with cracks and what not laying around so I will try again freehand style with the spoon bit chucked in the head stock and again in the tail stock and see what I can figure out.

In any case, a bigger pilot hole would make easier work for the spoon bit in both cases. I only have the one spoon bit to compare with at this point.