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Finished up my first billiard today - did my best to incorporate the feedback from the last thread (viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11521) while still keeping some semblance of a rim.

As mentioned in the previous thread, the bowl is too big proportionally and the button is too narrow (and the slot ended up too big). I think I probably still needed more off the cheeks and chin, and there is some incorrect waviness to the lines (still learning to see how things change once the stain and shine are on there), but I hope it's not too bad an effort. I tried to really slow down and be patient and get things as right as I could - I know it's far from perfect, but I am proud of the fact that I took my time, tried to be diligent, made the best pipe I'm capable of making right now.

Biggest things that jump out at me aside from the above are:
- I'm fairly certain I overbuffed it with the tripoli - a few uneven spots color-wise and I pushed into the grain pretty considerably (I think I hit the trifecta of too much speed, too much pressure, and too hard a wheel)
- I didn't get the bite zone as cleanly polished as I would have liked but was afraid to rework it anymore because it's already ~3.85mm - that being said, it's vastly improved over my previous effort.

Anyway, feedback appreciated as always. I'll probably make another ill-advised bent tomato or something next with my last ebauchon block, and then do another learnin' billiard. Thanks again all.

The stem looks a bit weird. I suspect a cross section of your stem behind the button would be shaped like a football. You need the bite zone to be flat with just the edges rounded over. The button also is probably a hair too tall. As long as you have the slot thin and centered, you can safely go down to 3.5 or even 3.3. Some extra sanding there wouldn't hurt.

Otherwise, it's a nice first billiard. You've mentioned the other things already that stood out to me.

Thanks Jeremiah. There's probably a little bit of football going on, which is likely compounded visually by the button height (which would probably be proportionally more okay if the whole button was the ~17mm wide I should have done).
I'll try to get a better picture of that area - would measurements be helpful too? Thanks as always!

Here's a close up of the button from the other side - turns out it's a harder picture to take on my phone than I would have expected:

Button comes up 1.35 mm from the bite zone, tapering down to ~1mm at the slot side.
Thanks!

sandahlpipe wrote:The stem looks a bit weird. I suspect a cross section of your stem behind the button would be shaped like a football. You need the bite zone to be flat with just the edges rounded over. The button also is probably a hair too tall. As long as you have the slot thin and centered, you can safely go down to 3.5 or even 3.3. Some extra sanding there wouldn't hurt.

Otherwise, it's a nice first billiard. You've mentioned the other things already that stood out to me.

Jeremiah, I will generally defer to you on these matters, knowing that you have placed a lot of thought and experience behind your advice, but in this instance I have some differences.
I looked at my small collection of artisan pipes and semi customs after reading this, as well as some of my more pleasing factory pipes, and I find that all but 2-3 are football shaped right behind the button. I suspect that there is a theoretical argument to be made that the flat shape espoused above may be stronger, leaving more material over the lateral areas of the funnel, and some may find it more comfortable. It is also easier to shape the bit with 2 flats up and down to quickly reach the desired lateral profile, but then the shaping devolves (for me) to blending the lateral contours and I wind up with the football shape.
For my own taste and tooth arrangement, I find that the maximum thickness of the bit and button is the chief determinate of how comfortable the bit feels- 0.14-0.15" for the bite area seems right.
As for the strength aspect, I feel that that is also idiosyncratic. When I clench, which is 80% of the time, I leave no marks is the involved area. That of course involves individual dentition.

Rick, your first billiard is remarkably good-my only minor point is that the bowl rim does not appear to be perpendicular to the tobacco chamber axis, the forward part would look better to me if it were a hair (1-2degees) lower.
I cannot see the slot on this tablet, but the last photograph looks satisfactory to me. Keep up the good work.
DocAitch

As with most things, comfort in the stem is somewhat subjective, but it's a system. The height of the button can vary, for example, based on the other dimensions and even the shape can vary within a range.

However, what I'm referring to is merely that if the bite area is both narrow and rounded in the middle, it makes for an uncomfortable clenching surface and a pipe that tends to roll sideways in the mouth. It doesn't necessarily need to be flat on the top. I make mine flat initially to just a hair wide of the final dimension, then round the edges a bit and blend it in. The key is that it's not too circular in the middle of the bite zone.

If you have the bite zone thin enough, it will of necessity be flatter, but if you're shooting for 4mm, you'll end up with a pipe that's harder to clench if it's rounded and extra thin on the edges. Especially with a narrow width of the stem.

Guys this is great stuff - thank you so much. I am admittedly not much of a clencher - though I've been smoking for over half my life, most of it has been with either fairly large pipes or with self-made pipe kit warclubs. I just never got the hang of not puffing away and letting things get too hot when I clench - the exception being a tiny Missouri Meerschaum that's my go-to shop pipe while carving (and mowing the lawn )

This one is definitely a bit too heavy to clench in the molars/premolars, and does roll a little when I attempt to do so - most of the time when I do clench, I basically hold the button at the top of my incisors and cantilever the pipe up a bit with my lower jaw, but then it's typically just for a few seconds if I need both hands. That being said, the bit itself is probably the most comfortable of the pipes I own (though that admittedly includes few pipes that could be considered even medium high grade). I just wish the damn chamber wasn't so big - 1" is just far bigger than I prefer.

DocAitch wrote: Rick, your first billiard is remarkably good-my only minor point is that the bowl rim does not appear to be perpendicular to the tobacco chamber axis, the forward part would look better to me if it were a hair (1-2degees) lower.
I cannot see the slot on this tablet, but the last photograph looks satisfactory to me. Keep the good work.
DocAitch

Thank you very much Doc - and you're absolutely correct. The worst part is that I eyeballed that, thought it looked too canted, and backed it down a bit more on the back (I'd shoved the 1" bit back in there and tried to use that to judge squareness originally, and should have stuck with where it was). I owe you both a huge debt of gratitude (as well as LL) for pushing me to bite the bullet and make a billiard (which I fully admit scared the shit out of me to do) - I feel like I learned so much in preparing for and carving this one. I'm examining pipes so much more critically now, and am chomping at the bit to try and one-up this one.

IAWSp about stem cross-section profile.

The thing is SMALL dimensional differences make LARGE sensory ones to the Human Eating Apparatus. You know how a sliver of popcorn shell between two teeth drives you nuts? That's no accident. Losing your teeth/ability to eat was automatic death for the first 99.9% of h. Sapiens existence, which meant people with sensitive mouths were more likely to survive. Toss in some DNA, stir vigorously, and here, as the saying goes, we are.

No need to experiment on yourself or anyone else regarding optimal bite zone dimensions. Many billions of pipes and hundreds of millions of smokers have already done the focus group thing. Just copy the accepted standard.

LatakiaLover wrote:No need to experiment on yourself or anyone else regarding optimal bite zone dimensions. Many billions of pipes and hundreds of millions of smokers have already done the focus group thing. Just copy the accepted standard.

Understood I will do my best. Thank you!