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I've been working on a set of black rusticated pipes with a subtle coloured acrylic stem and stainless steel accents. All of them are based on existing Sasieni stummels but with elongated stems (from acrylic provided by the guy who ordered them) and finished in a black rustication. For this one he ended up finding the acrylic too bright and patterned so we agreed I'd bend this one (he wanted it straight) and sell it while making him a new one.

I must say I'm quite pleased with this one. The stummel is a tad smaller than the original example due to a flaw in the rim which I took off, but I really like how the button worked out and after 3 pipes I'm getting the hang of the stainless steel (which is still a b*tch to work with).

Time for you guys to have your way with it.

Your stem looks a little thick through the bend on the bottom side. I think if you would have left a bit more of a taper, from bowl to stem, on the bottom side of the shank your stem would be fine. On a prince the bottom line has to be one flowing curve/line from the button through to the bottom of the bowl. Same thing with the top line from bowl to button. At least, that's how I make a prince. Todd "I make ugly pipes" Bannard will tell me I'm wrong....probably

I see what you mean and noticed it while bending, the taper was geared more for a straight dtem like this was ment to be originally, but the overall pipe looks better bent, and I liked the stem too much to start filing into it again, so this is where this one ends up.


Oh and yeah, Sas disagrees

Two things here. The stem/shank junction is a slight "elbow" instead of the stem being a seamless extension of the shank; and the hardness difference between SS and the stem material bit you in the ass.



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Here, the arrow points to another "elbow" line break that should be a single sweeping curve; and the line exaggerates (slightly) how the bite zone curves inward as the button is approached. That's a no-no. With few exceptions (and none on normal-sized & classic pipes) the sides of the bite zone should either be perfectly straight or flare.



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The orange line here is exaggerated to show how the profile line turns upward as the button is approached, leaving a bulge behind it. The bottom line should be the same sort of smooth, unbroken curve as the portion of top line visible this shot (good job on that).



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PS --- Prince stems are one of the most difficult to get exactly right in all the PipeWorld. Props for tackling one.

George and his lines are like a kid with a new Christmas toy.

JMG wrote:George and his lines are like a kid with a new Christmas toy.

Says someone who doesn't have a $2.99 line-drawing program on HIS computer. Hah!

"There are a great many kinds of sins. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: 'Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.'"

LatakiaLover wrote:

JMG wrote:George and his lines are like a kid with a new Christmas toy.

Says someone who doesn't have a $2.99 line-drawing program on HIS computer. Hah!

"There are a great many kinds of sins. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: 'Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.'"

I see what you did there.

You're definitely right on the elbow next to the steel, although it's already much smaller than on the first one I did. Any tips on how to eliminate that while sanding? Stainless is a b*tch to sand.

As for the sideflares it's something I've been working on. First point was getting them finished symmetrical which worked quite well on this one, but I see what you mean.
The bottom curve is a result of bending without subsequent shaping I think, as the curve was a slight upward taper which is now bent the opposite way.

As I'll be making a replacement pipe for the set this guy ordered, I'll get another try real soon!

If you taper the shank and stem from bowl to flare the transition is easier to pull off without George's dreaded elbow rearing it's ugly head. It doesn't have to be much of a taper, but a taper will help.

I struggle with this quite a bit with my "Scottie" pipes. The goal there is to have the lines be straight. Then I have to find a way to pleasingly meld that hard line into the flare. It's a serious challenge and I'm still working on pulling it off 100% of the time.

scotties22 wrote:If you taper the shank and stem from bowl to flare the transition is easier to pull off without George's dreaded elbow rearing it's ugly head. It doesn't have to be much of a taper, but a taper will help.

I struggle with this quite a bit with my "Scottie" pipes. The goal there is to have the lines be straight. Then I have to find a way to pleasingly meld that hard line into the flare. It's a serious challenge and I'm still working on pulling it off 100% of the time.

The shank is actually tapered, its about 1.25mm (.05") wider at the bowl than it is at the stem transition. This elbow wasn't there after the lathework on the stem either, it's purely a difference in hardness during sanding that creates it, as George painfully pointed out

Sorry, I was talking about the top view pic that George commented on and specifically the elbow at the flare of the stem. I get the "two different hardnesses"

Scottie is right, Massis.

It's what makes Prince stems a nightmare. Basically, you have to cut the taper rate of the shank to accommodate or "match" both the length and future curve of the stem while the block is still chucked in your lathe. Too much or too little and the finished pipe will have a stem-shank "elbow"---a line break---even if you do everything perfectly from then on. It can't be fixed in the mix later (to use the audio term).

The ss vs. stem material hardness difference is a separate issue (but it can exacerbate the problem, as it did here).

I'll describe how to deal with that in another post later today (it's a bit tricky).

You definitely didn't set an easy task for yourself with this pipe. A sandblast prince with a hard metal shank extension/ring/spacer thingie is something that all but the best pipe makers in the world would have trouble with unless they took a couple practice swings first.

Psst: it's handrusticated, not blasted

Otherwise I can only say that I cut the taper on the block when turning, then turned the stem including the taper up to the last cm (which is stuck in the jaws) with the stummel attached to it, and must've created the elbow during sanding.

I'll be making another one in the next couple of weeks so I'll report back with that one when it's done
Thanks for the feedback so far!

Massis wrote:Psst: it's handrusticated, not blasted.

A distinction without a difference in this case. The word I meant---and should have used---was "textured".

I'm guessing you lost the taper in the shank when you rusticated it. Now you got all types of shit to pay attention to when you make the next one

OK, here's how I achieve a level join between a soft material like acrylic or vulcanite and a rigid, impossible-to-change-its-dimensions-by-sanding object (like a stainless steel ring) in a situation like this.

It may not be the simplest/easiest way, and it certainly isn't the only way, but it's how I've done it with success in the past.

I'm assuming that the ss ring is already cut, and the stummel's shank is already the size you want it to be so that everything will look right when the pipe is assembled.

--- Take a 4" (appx) length of broomstick-diameter hardwood dowel, and drill and ream a hole in one end that's EXACTLY the same size as the mortise in the stummel.

--- Chuck up and center a pin gauge that's enough oversize to hold the dowel firmly, push the dowel over it, and turn the first 1.5" to 2.0" of the hole end to a couple of thousandths larger in diameter than the ss ring's OD.

--- Cut the stem as you normally would, leaving its base and the material leading up to the base slightly larger than the OD of the ss ring. Ten to fifteen thousandths should be enough.

--- Put some epoxy on one side of the ring and the face of the stem, slide the ring over the tenon (keep track of which side has the glue!), and then smush everything together firmly. The hardwood dowel then becomes a combination handle and faux pipe shank.

--- Carefully hand sand the stem down to the level of the ss ring using the handle/dowel as guide. As long as the sandpaper is wrapped around a flat stick, your stroke is kept flat and level, you raise the grit of the paper as the final thou is approached, AND you pay attention the entire time to avoid cutting facets/flat spots, you'll end up with level, seamless perfection.

Great advice already given. I really dig the pipe.

Or you could go with my original advice from facebook, don't use stainless steel you numpty!

caskwith wrote:Or you could go with my original advice from facebook, don't use stainless steel you numpty!

Damn. That's almost really a word.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Numpty

LatakiaLover wrote:OK, here's how I achieve a level join between a soft material like acrylic or vulcanite and a rigid, impossible-to-change-its-dimensions-by-sanding object (like a stainless steel ring) in a situation like this.

It may not be the simplest/easiest way, and it certainly isn't the only way, but it's how I've done it with success in the past.

I'm assuming that the ss ring is already cut, and the stummel's shank is already the size you want it to be so that everything will look right when the pipe is assembled.

1) Take a 4" (appx) length of broomstick-diameter hardwood dowel, and drill and ream a hole in one end that's EXACTLY the same size as the mortise in the stummel.

2) Chuck up and center a pin gauge that's enough oversize to hold the dowel firmly, push the dowel over it, and turn the first 1.5" to 2.0" of the hole end to a couple of thousandths larger in diameter than the ss ring's OD.

3) Cut the stem as you normally would, leaving its base and the material leading up to the base slightly larger than the OD of the ss ring. Ten to fifteen thousandths should be enough.

4) Put some epoxy on one side of the ring and the face of the stem, slide the ring over the tenon (keep track of which side has the glue!), and then smush everything together firmly. The hardwood dowel then becomes a combination handle and faux pipe shank.

5) Carefully hand sand the stem down to the level of the ss ring using the handle/dowel as guide. As long as the sandpaper is wrapped around a flat stick, your stroke is kept flat and level, you raise the grit of the paper as the final thou is approached, AND you pay attention the entire time to avoid cutting facets/flat spots, you'll end up with level, seamless perfection.

Thanks for the elaborate feedback, however the process you describe raises some questions with me. For step 2: why not simply chuck the dowel, turn it perfectly round and drill & ream the hole in the same way?

Where in the process do you finish the ring? The ring is cut from a solid rod of stainless steel, and needs to be sanded through the grits and polished. If I finish it before glueing, any tiny touch of the sandpaper while doing the stem will result in scratches wich need to be sanded back out, changing the size, requiring resanding of the acrylic. Repeat ad nauseam until you have no stem left
Not to mention that sanding the stainless up to finish also rounds off the edges if it's not attached to anything, so I'd need another 2 rods to clamp it in?

I'm assuming in the final sanding with the flat stick, you sand both the stem and dowel at the same time until you reach the level of the SS ring?

FYI, my current process involves this:

- I face the stainless steel rod & drill the hole
- I cut off the ring
- I turn the tenon on the acrylic
- I epoxy on the SS ring with the faced side towards the faced acrylic
- I face the other side of the SS ring
- I fit the stummel (using the tenon as a pin gauge basicly) and turn the entire thing as one (obviously the tapered shank was already turned before)
- finish sanding

I'm contemplating whether it would work to not turn the entire thing as once, but simply leave the acrylic slightly oversized off the lathe and sand it with the flat stick you suggested up to the point where the final sanding (600 and perhaps 400) touches both the acrylic & stainless steel to finish them as one? Since it'll only be the lightest grits and used with a flat sanding surface, that should keep everything level?

wdteipen wrote:Great advice already given. I really dig the pipe.

Thanks, means a lot to me coming from you!

caskwith wrote:Or you could go with my original advice from facebook, don't use stainless steel you numpty!

I wish. Original customer is a picky sasieni collector with quite an elaborate collection so I value his opinion, and he really wanted stainless steel, not silver or aluminium. Besides, whilst aluminium is definitely softer, it causes the same problems, just to a lesser degree.