My First Commission, Pipe #10

[clickklick]

I made this one as a commission, it is my first . . . and tenth pipe. It is going to Ireland! I'm pretty stoked! I am calling my brand Carmette Pipes. It is a combination of my daughters names.

[d.huber]

It's great to see your enthusiasm, that you're clearly learning with each pipe you complete, and I'm happy to see that you are posting the pipes you make regularly on here asking for critique. There is no where better to learn how to begin making an exceptional pipe than on this forum, except for under the direct tutelage of a master. When you do receive guidance from an experienced carver on this forum, I hope that you take it very seriously. They love pipes and have dedicated a very serious amount of their lives to studying them.

I'm going to offer you some food for thought.

This pipe is not good. It's not awful, but it's not good. Try to figure out why. If you aren't already studying a lot of excellent work start doing that now. It will help a lot.

Imagine a shape and make that shape. Not something that's sort of like that shape. Make that shape. Get as close as you can. Make intentional choices about every aspect of the design. Every detail is visible. Anything that you do that is not intentional will be obvious. Any exceptions you make will be known. There are a lot of obvious, unintentional, poorly done details here that draw the quality down. I believe that you know what those are and are capable of fixing them.

If you want to take this seriously, I recommend that you do not sell anymore pipes until you've figured out more of the questions that you're exploring right now.

I sincerely hope that this was helpful. Some of the best advice I have received came from people who guided me to find my own answers.

TIAFO.

[LatakiaLover]

IAWSDUH

[clickklick]

At 75$ to recoup some material costs I didn't think I was too out of line with what other learning individuals would ask.

But I respect your guys advice so please let me know. I am not advertising that these are high grade pipes and I have been very clear that I am learning. The outpouring of support has been huge. So I'm a bit on the fence. When does one expect to at least be able to recoup some material costs?

[clickklick]

So the stem is to thick, a bit lumpy after bending.
The air hole is not dead center.
The pipe is not symmetrical nor does it match side to side or front to back.
The shank tapers out and the stem joint tapers in.
There is a flat spot where the shank meets the bowl.

These are what I see. Is $75 really ridiculous?

How do others do it?

[RDPowell]

I'm making my 10th pipe right now and not one before it was good enough to sell to anyone.
We all must have standards to go by, mine might be a bit high but, when I do sell a pipe I'll
not have to worry about the customer being pleased and it serving him well, unless he or she is just
a nightmare to begin with.
I'm saying this because I understand what you might feel about recouping your time and money.
First as any new pipe carver or for that fact new craftsman of anything we give up our time for free,
it's just not in the equation. Making something that is going to be held, inspected, used and maybe even
showed to others is quite a responsibility we take on and I believe if and when we are ready to sell of wares
they've got to be as perfect as we can possibly make them. That I believe is what makes are great craftsman
or just a fair one. If you see flaws, fix them or go on to the next pipe and try to do better and avoid the flaws in
the last one till you get it right. I know it's frustrating and I'm banging my head right now thinking when can I. Ya gotta
love what your doing and money can't be all that it's about. Some of us has what it takes to proceed while others don't.
I'm wondering right now is this all worth it but, I won't give up just yet. I reckon that's what you have to decide for yourself.
Okay, all that might have been above my pay grade here but, at 61 I've learned a little about how things work and don't work.

[notow1]

I am not qualified to give critiques but maybe I can offer some advice. I am asking a little more than You for My pipes and they are not flying out the door. Do You know that all Your pipes smoke well? If You don't then smoke Your first pipes and correct any problems, then make Your next without those problems. I know My pipes smoke well because I have so many shop pipes with shaping issues I smoke them for a while then clean them and give them away. I too am just a beginning pipe maker but My greatest fear is Someone buying a pipe of Mine that is crappy and that is the start of My reputation. I don't think You can sell pipes to recoup Your cost until You make good pipes. This is just My opinion others may disagree, Norm.

[sandahlpipe]

I agree with Norm. The market is flooded right now with all the new pipe makers. Give away the first several pipes to friends and keep your mistakes. If you want to set yourself apart, you need to bring your A-game. Otherwise, you'll sell a few pipes early on and then fizzle out when people lose the initial excitement.

You're doing well for where you're at. Keep working on it and you've got some great potential if you don't give up.

[wdteipen]

I agree that this pipe isn't good enough to sell. That being said, I sold worse early on. I can tell you that I seriously wish that I didn't and that I could get several pipes back and properly dispose the world of them. You will too if you sell now. This pipe isn't too far off. The two biggest things are that the shank reverse tapers and it doesn't work with the visually heavy bowl and that the stem needs a ton more material taken off. The bowl shaping isn't too bad. A little amorphous but not bad. The slot looks better than most at number 10. There's definitely plenty to build on if you listen to the advice of the experienced guys.

[clickklick]

I'm improving with every pipe. The third pipe a made smokes mediocre the 7th & 8th were gifted and I'm told they smoke great. The 9th I kept for myself and it smokes very well. I've been a pipe smoker for 13 years and am not doing this with intent of getting rich on the newest fad.

I guess thoughts have changed lately but back when I started smoking pipes in 2003 there were some bigger name guys starting out in their careers and were selling their early works for a song to be able to make more pipes and to get peoples feedback. I know one who did a forum pipe that is pretty much an equal quality to the one in this thread and at the time it was 160$ and absolutely everyone was over the moon about it and enjoyed supporting a new and budding pipe maker. That guy now makes the best fantasy pipes on the market.

So I don't want to come across as someone who is just in this to make money. And my time is free. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that you guys wouldn't make a pipe for someone that reached out to you for an early piece knowing it will be far from perfect but wants to give you support. Boggles my mind really.

So yes the pipe is not bad but its not good. It is just OK probably not even that to most of you. Much to improve on. It is my tenth pipe. This was communicated to the buyer who still wanted it even after looking at all of the pictures. But if it doesn't smoke well for him he can return it for a full refund. Including the 25$ it costs just to ship to Ireland.

So you guys have the first twenty pipes you made just sitting on a shelf?

I guess I'll cancel the other two orders I have and just give them the damn things since I suck so bad. I was thinking that if I could make a better smoking pipe than a machine made pipe at this price why wouldn't I?

I'm just gonna give the guy this and have him cover postage if he wants. I'm going to go pout in the corner for a while. I'll see you guys when my next turd is made.

[sandahlpipe]

Don't feel too bad, there. I think most of us have made pipes and sold them when we wish we hadn't. Because you're improving so quickly, I think you'll be embarrassed that pipes are out there that you made early on. I wish I had kept my first dozen pipes at least, but I didn't. I have some folks who are still proud to own those early pipes from me, and I hang my head every time I hear it. Some pipes, I wish I could buy back. I even gave a pipe away that I wish I had incinerated because the owner (a member of this forum) likes to bring it out every once in a while to show me how far I've come.

If you feel compelled to sell your pipes, go ahead. No one is gonna stop you. Sell them only if you're sure they will smoke well, or you'll get them back. Sell them for enough to cover materials for another few blocks of briar. A few years ago, you could make a pipe and sell it immediately for $150 if it looked like a pipe and $100 for a block with two holes in it. The competition has shifted significantly since then. It's a buyer's market. The buyer has hundreds of options now under $200, so they're choosy.

I guess what I'm trying to say is you have the chance to learn from our mistakes. The advice I'm giving is what I wish I could have told myself when I first started.

[clickklick]

I respect your wisdom, insight, and experience. I will not be selling my pipes at this time. I hope I can continue to receive constructive criticism on my pipes from you guys after this.

[andrew]

So, I agree with you guys that the pipe needs improvement. That said....

Click, If it's a choice between not making pipes or selling one that is "mechannically ok" and taking the money and buying more supplies... sell the pipe. Recoup your material costs and move on. I sold pipes starting out that I'm embarrassed about. One even had structural issues (I made the guy a new pipe for free) Be honest with buyers and Do Not oversell yourself. You'll be fine. Everyone has a learning curve and as long as you are honest with your buyer about what you are selling you will be fine. Just be prepared to go above and beyond if something goes wrong with one of your pipes once it's in the hands of a customer.

[Alden]

The best advice I got when I started out really pissed me off. I was told the last thing the world needs is another damn pipe maker. Actually it was, we need another pipe maker like we need another pizza joint in Chicago.
As much as I didn't like the advice, it was actually true. Fuck, have you seen the pipes these assholes make ?? And you think you can do that ?
But it didn't stop me, didn't even slow me down.
It probably should have.
As much as anyone in this thread may be right or wrong, it ultimately does not matter. Are you going to let something like rationality and reason stop you from doing what you want to do ? If words can stop you, believe me the challenge of the work itself will get you in the end.
LISTEN to good advice, every time it is offered.
But DO what you think is right for you.
In the end this pipe is kind of awkward, and there are some technical shortcomings you need to imrpove. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Sell it to the guy who wants it, $75 is perfectly reasonable. Stand behind it 100% and allow a return for absolutely any reason whatsoever. Next time bevel the rim of the tobacco chamber, even if it's a tiny bevel. That sharp edge will burn over time.

[andrew]

Also, I would not advise creating a "brand" for a couple years. It won't do anything for you now. The only legitimate reason for creating a "name" at this point would be if you are actually running a business and need it for tax purposes. Even then....
One thing I do regret was stamping my work too soon. Avoid that if you can.
All right, I'm done stirring the pot.

[d.huber]

Click,I wouldn't recommend selling now for the future you, not because anyone thinks you're chasing a buck with an inferior product. You clearly have passion and that is exciting to see.

We've all sold pipes that we wish we hadn't. My advice was coming from there.

My intent was to offer helpful, honest advice for you, not to accuse you of anything. I apologize if my language did not communicate my intent.

There are loads of good advice in this thread.

[sandahlpipe]

The fact that this thread has garnered so much attention speaks to the potential I think we all see in you.

[Travis Fry]

I've never posted here before, but this seems like as good a time as any to pop that cherry. I'm new to pipe making, having just finished #7, but I've been making and selling custom knives for a long time now, and to be honest I'm damn good at it. I, too, just sold my first pipe (for $100). The bit I have to offer is based on my experience in the (vastly more populated than pipe making) world of custom knives.

I say sell what you can, when you can, and price accordingly. There's no shame, EVER, in selling a hand made product, as long as one is straightforward about what it is (and isn't) and it is priced appropriately for one's skill level. I sold my first knife for $75. The one I just finished will go for $1500. I proudly claim both as mine and am happy I sold them because both are the best I could do with the skills and equipment I had at the time, and I never presented them as anything other than that. Selling the first dozen or so not-awesome knives at prices appropriate to my skill level helped me get feedback, helped me build a long term customer base (the guy who bought #7 just bought #135 six years later), and helped me afford to upgrade my equipment. Just be honest about what you're making, be proud of it, and keep making more.

[d.huber]

The fact that this thread has garnered so much attention speaks to the potential I think we all see in you.

I completely agree. This is exactly the reason I commented as I did.

I regret recommending that you not sell. It seems to have become the focus of the discussion when, IMO, it was not the most important advice in my comment. We all sold our early stuff and, while we wish we hadn't sold some because of where we are now, I think we all understand the need to sell so you can keep going. There's no shame in that.

That being said, if you have honestly decided not to sell for now, I have a great deal of respect for you for making that choice. Most of us did not have the courage to do so.

[finster]

Yep, lots of courage and character revealed in this thread. My hats off to you, clickklick.