pipemakersforum.com

Sasquatch wrote:I make money at pipes because I don't try to make money at pipes. I try to make "favorite" pipes. God how I love to see pictures of my pipes when people have smoked them 500 times, and all beat up and over-reamed and chewed to shit. The pipe was a success! I don't want it sitting in some fucking cabinet! I want it sitting in the pickup truck and successfully burning 2 lbs of Grampa's toby day after day because no other pipe Grampa has works quite as well, or hangs quite like that.

I still sell $125 pipes - because I can, and because people can afford them. I love making those pipes just as much as the higher priced ones with hand cut stems, carefully chosen grain, artistic interpretation, and paintstaking finishing. The excitement that people have at being able to afford a handmade or hand-finished pipe is priceless - the smile, their ebullience, everything.

It's tough to describe, but I think Sasquatch really nailed it.

Sasquatch wrote:You are all capitalist pigs, and will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

Sasquatch, you are a poopyhead. The zombies will kill us all way before then.

Talking about money: I have a friend that says that all he wants, is to earn at least as much as a hooker!
Hmm, maybe I should give up this "pipemaking-thing", as my dearly beloved calls it..

KurtHuhn wrote:... artistic interpretation, and paintstaking finishing.

Why don't you just use Feibing's like the rest of us, Smartass?

Sasquatch wrote:

KurtHuhn wrote:... artistic interpretation, and paintstaking finishing.

Why don't you just use Feibing's like the rest of us, Smartass?

Isn't that just like an establishment man. My love for my craft demands that I turn my back on your ensconced ways. I hand craft my own stains from walnut hulls and boiled sharpie markers.

I have to thank you all, again, and again for the amazing, in depth insight.
Thanks, again.

P.S. and Bruce, Honestly, I swear I was not trying to be an ass, in that (you know) post that got your goat.

M.M.

Sasquatch wrote: ...You are all capitalist pigs, and will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

I've been up against the wall my whole life, because of the capitalist pigs, and now you're telling me when the revolution comes, they're gonna do the same thing.
The hell you say.



P.S. Wow, man, I've really been getting into these little smiley face things, lately.
They're starting to talk to me, too. Do they ever talk to you?

Your life serves as a lesson for all men, I'm sure.

Sasquatch wrote:Your life serves as a lesson for all men, I'm sure.

I'm not serious. Just messin' around. Saturday night. No girlfriend. What the hell.

I'm not as bad as the picture of me that's been painted, here, and in part my prices are high as a defense...so much shit has been slung at me here, I'm a bit paranoid.

I already knew you were a truly inspired artist, and in one of your posts you said you're not a very good pipemaker, but, I think that's either all in your head, or you're just being humble, and I don't know your real name, but I think Sasquatch pipes will be collected for centuries.

Mike Messer wrote: I'm not as bad as the picture of me that's been painted, here, and in part my prices are high as a defense...so much shit has been slung at me here, I'm a bit paranoid.
.

Mike,

You are the painter.

You're being "that guy." That's why poop occasionally flies.

If I may offer one piece of advice: don't pursue pipe making as a full-time vocation. (Am I correct in understanding your website to be saying this is a full-time gig for you?) Let pipe making pursue you. You clearly have talent that could be developed, but unless you are independently wealthy, or live like Ted Kazinski, you'll be broke quickly.

Tyler

Tyler wrote:

Mike Messer wrote: I'm not as bad as the picture of me that's been painted, here, and in part my prices are high as a defense...so much shit has been slung at me here, I'm a bit paranoid.
.

Mike,

You are the painter.

You're being "that guy." That's why poop occasionally flies.

If I may offer one piece of advice: don't pursue pipe making as a full-time vocation. (Am I correct in understanding your website to be saying this is a full-time gig for you?) Let pipe making pursue you. You clearly have talent that could be developed, but unless you are independently wealthy, or live like Ted Kazinski, you'll be broke quickly.

Tyler

Na, I quit painting years ago, ikkie, smelly stuff gets all over you, and sometimes you can't get it off of your clothes, and you have to throw them away.
Thanks for the friendly, and yes, and it did, and I am, or..no way, and no way
It a mood thing.

(later edit)
Sorry, Tyler, I think I was just overloaded by all of the advice, and especially when it turned hostile and seemed to be trying to kick me down, while, coincidentally, tooting their own flutes. Some of it gets weird, like barroom chat, but then this is an informal forum, and on the weekend, and maybe some of the guys are hittin' the sauce a little too heavy. I don't know, but that's cool. Cheers.
Some of the advice is very deep and knowledgeable, though.

Despite what you may have read or think, I make good pipes. I'm not in the business, though. I approach pipemaking like an art form.

As for prices, Rad quoted my "I don't know" response to Walle's post, and replied "That's obvious," but the truth is, I know what I am doing. I just didn't want to get into it then.

My prices are high because that's what I am doing...making high quality, high-priced, one-of-a-kind pipes.

If that is offensive to someone, then I'm sorry, but I'm not going to worry about it very much.

M.M.

P.S. I think, maybe I'm getting a little too BIG TIME for this forum. I'll just have my publicist do a Press Release or something.

Mike you and I are both at the beginning of our careers as pipemakers so we are sharing similar experiences and reading this thread has been interesting on several levels.

With regards The Tilted Pot, the whole tilting thing is lost on me, to me it is a nice pipe that leans over, not an ‘oooo nice’ though. It has reinforced my notion that a pipe must fall cleanly into one camp or another, in this case the camps being ‘Classic’ and ‘Modern Take On Classic’, the subtle nature of your design makes it hard for people to see it as a design feature.

On the price side of things I have taken the opposite approach. I started selling my pipes after I had made only five, the pipes were sold as the early pipes of a new pipemaker and I have kept my customers up to date on new methods I was using and how my work was improving. I took my customers on the journey with me and they have stayed.

As of now I have sold 96 pipes, the most expensive being a commission pipe that went for $140, my average selling price is $70,which even my customers say is below their worth. But I have 82 very happy customers who are spreading the word. In January I’ll be raising my prices because my pipes are now that much better, it won’t be a big increase though. I have allowed five years for my pipes to get to a point where they will sell for $300+, if they ever sell for more than that I’d probably faint.

As a business man (although an awful one) I had to think carefully about pricing, do you go hunting for the one guy with $500 to spend or the fifty guys with $250 in their pocket, you do the math. On a personal level I would also rather sell pipes to ordinary Joe’s who’ll smoke them than someone with more money than sense who puts it in a cabinet to look at.

Your decision to go straight in at the top end I can understand, it may not be the wisest way but it is a way. The assertiveness with which you make your points is a little intense at times, and the intensity can come across as aggression, which says a lot about the reader and writer.

Mike,

I'm pretty sure that no one is offended by your pricing, and most are trying to help. Snarkiness and all, the pros are offering advice that will help you sell pipes. I think in order to appreciate that, you have to stop reading everything through such an adversarial filter. You expect to be attacked so you perceive everything as such. That's my perception, anyway. Another thing that will help how you are treated is to be more consistent. In some posts you are rather stubborn and aggressive, but in others you try to act appreciative, but because of your previous aggressiveness it is perceived as condescending, passive aggression. A more even keeled approach to all posts will probably make things a bit more pleasant for all involved. Do what you will, though.

Micah

Thanks for the input DMI and mredmond. Some food for thought.

DMI wrote: ... The assertiveness with which you make your points is a little intense at times, and the intensity can come across as aggression, which says a lot about the reader and writer...

You know, I didn't start that agressive stuff. I can deal with criticism, okay. It can be very useful, but when, someone, sometimes several people, come down hard on me, with insults and slander, even, I get pretty snarlly, but I try to clean up the mess, later, and I try not to hold grudges.

mredmond wrote:Mike,

...but because of your previous aggressiveness it is perceived as condescending, passive aggression. ...

Micah

I was dumbfounded when Bruce took offense at one of my posts, and he used the term, passive aggression, also, I think. So, I guess that's why he took offense. I couldn't figure it. Thanks for clearing that up.

Ok, the price of the pot is now $950, the "Life Form" is $2200, and Tug is $800.

I'm pretty sure we're all being had by someone.

Rad

Stop the ride.


I'm gonna puke.

I got some really nice Rolex Watches, too. Just $500 bucks, if any a you guys is in the market. Ya know what I mean?

Being Had? I don't think so. The price is clearly stated, and there is no misrepresentation and no tricks involved. At that price, I'm sure a buyer would know what he is doing, and he is free to do what ever he wants. Rad, I've seen some manufactured pipes going for that much.
Here's an idea you might try. You're doing good selling the way you're pricing, now, but start selecting your best examples, and kick the price way up on them, keep your low end where it is now, and stretch your price range to about three times what it is now. See what happens. I think you're good, and you deserve it. You know that's pocket change for some collectors.

Yo, Sasquatch, get some Pepto Bismol? We're just gettin' this ride cranked-up.
I've been reading statistics, and pipe smoking is growing, after decades of decline. That means demand, and price increases..and those Danish guys are good, but they don't have a lock on big numbers.

Mike Messer wrote: Being Had?:

Gentlemen,
Please favor me with one request. I would appreciate your viewing the following, which should put everything in perspective:
PLEASE CLICK HERE!
Mike Messingwithyourheads is on the money regarding Rod Davies pricing. Rod could be making a lot more money on his pipes and Thad Johnston is getting way too much. Rod needs to be in the 4 figure range and Thad needs to concentrate on volume and making basket pipes.
I've been a businessman my entire life and find that most of you pipe makers are in the ignoramus category regarding business acumen.

I tried to buy Lifeform but it would take my credit card. What gives?

wdteipen wrote:I tried to buy Lifeform but it would (not) take my credit card. What gives?

Well, actually, It prefers Mac Baren Flake Vanilla instead of money, but watch your fingers, sometimes it bites.

baweaverpipes wrote: ...Rod needs to be in the 4 figure range and Thad needs to concentrate on volume and making basket pipes.

Rad, 5 figures, and Todd, "Toddy's Magic Bubble-Stuff Pipes, Inc."

P.S. Somebody, stop me!