pipemakersforum.com

Frank wrote:

andrew wrote:If only wolves had ivory... that would be nice

andrew

Now, if poachers grew tusks, I'd be all for hunting THEM!!

That would certainly change the game a bit

andrew

I think coyotes would be the best to add ivory to. They will breed as fast as killed. But if no deaths their reproduction rates slow once the population reaches it's balance point.


Sent from my banana phone.

I've only worked with ivory that was about 100 years old, but I found it to be the toughest and most stable material I've ever worked with (I did do the turning with carbide inserts, hss was almost useless on it). If you don't break it when working it, it will not break.

I think if they just allowed people to use those thousands of useless, ugly ass elephant statuettes and make them into something truly valuable, we would be good for a long time.

Frank wrote:Use Tagua nut, it's relatively inexpensive. It looks, feels and works just like ivory. It even colour ages like ivory over time.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/208540 ... fgodz0sA_Q

When I travel for work, I am often in places that sell lots of jewelry made from tagua nut. Next time I'm in such a place, I will look into getting a whole bunch of it to bring back. The finished jewelry pieces I see are a fraction of the price that woodcraft sells the nuts for. Maybe I can get a really good deal on a large amount. I'll report back on this in a few weeks.

tagua nut is relatively cheap where I am...so it should be cheap for you guys too. its right around 80 cents a nut.

tagua is hard to make accents from because it does have the nature hole in the middle and cracks everywhere. its honestly not even worth the effort. if you really want to use a white accent material, it might as well just be acrylic. the only reason people use real ivory for stuff is because of it value and rarity. if ivory was cheap as dirty and common, no one would be putting it on high grade pipes. its not as if there is a shortage of white material.

that might have come off as if i'm anti ivory but truth be told I love working it. its upsetting that there is a ban on a country that isn't even the problem, but like scott, if there was even the chance that id be using a material where and animal was killed just for it, it isn't worth it.

The jewelry pieces I see are rather large, intricately carved pieces(think almost liberty silver dollar size, after being carved), and they are very solid with no imperfections. I wouldn't waste my time or money if I thought it woudn't be worth it, but the source I'm talking about has pieces that are top quality and perfect for our purposes. I get what you're saying about plenty of other whitish materials being available and I have no problem using acrylic or anything else, but if I can get ahold of some good quality tagua nut, I'm not going to pass it up.

I was able to get my hands on some tagua nuts today from a local artisan. I was able to get them for $1 each so I got a bag of 25. When I get back to the states I'll try it it out to see what I can do with it. I convinced the vendor to slice a few up to check the quality, and aside from a few spots down the very center of the nuts, the flesh of the nuts are immaculate. If anyone is interested, I can TRY to get some more, but you need to let me know in the next hour or so. Please limit your requests to about a dozen, as my cash is limited, as is my storage space while deployed. I MAKE NO GUARANTEE AS TO THE QUALITY OF THE NUTS YOU GET.


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wisemanpipes wrote: if you really want to use a white accent material, it might as well just be acrylic. the only reason people use real ivory for stuff is because of it value and rarity. if ivory was cheap as dirty and common, no one would be putting it on high grade pipes. its not as if there is a shortage of white material.

I don't agree with that.
Bamboo is cheap and common and it is often used even on super-duper-high grade pipes, because it's just such a cool material.
The properties of ivory, mechanical and aesthetic, are just so much nicer than anything else, natural or man-made. Plus it's natural.

I work with various substitutes, as here in Europe there was no such thing as "pre-ban", it's just banned. There are other ivories, tagua and many man-made materials that are very nice. I like tagua a lot, I was very surprised at how damn hard those nuts are, they finish very nicely.

keilwerth wrote: Plus it's natural.

It's much more natural sticking out of the sides of an elephant's mouth.

It's really not "natural" as part of a pipe.

Rad

RadDavis wrote:

keilwerth wrote: Plus it's natural.

It's much more natural sticking out of the sides of an elephant's mouth.

It's really not "natural" as part of a pipe.

Rad

TOUCHÉ!!

keilwerth wrote:

wisemanpipes wrote: if you really want to use a white accent material, it might as well just be acrylic. the only reason people use real ivory for stuff is because of it value and rarity. if ivory was cheap as dirty and common, no one would be putting it on high grade pipes. its not as if there is a shortage of white material.

I don't agree with that.
Bamboo is cheap and common and it is often used even on super-duper-high grade pipes, because it's just such a cool material.
The properties of ivory, mechanical and aesthetic, are just so much nicer than anything else, natural or man-made. Plus it's natural.

Ahhh you got me there! Great point

but there is no other substitute for bamboo so im sure if it became harder to find people would search high and low instead of using a faux substitute. my reasoning still stands that people would rather use a rare accent than a common one. ivory over acrylic

As for Tagua, I just never had good experiences with it. it was always such a pain in the ass ad cracked all over. I have a lot of mammoth stock so im good on accents.

[/quote]

It's much more natural sticking out of the sides of an elephant's mouth.

It's really not "natural" as part of a pipe.

Rad[/quote]


Elephant hugger!

Just to be clear, I would never use any recently harvested ivory, I'm against that. But since those tusks have been taken from that poor creature's mouth over 50 or more years ago it doesn't really change much whether you put them on a pipe or in a locked drawer....

While I'm bummed about the ban, the treatment and survival of elephants is more important so I support the ban. Ivory is a beautiful material for which there is no substitute. That being said, there are a lot of reasonable alternatives that are more sustainable. For me though, tagua nut isn't one of them. It's not near as strong as ivory in my experience and trying to harvest a decent enough piece isn't worth the effort. I went through half a dozen nuts before I found one that had enough of a solid piece that I could turn a shank ring on. I turned down the ring perfect twice only to have the ring break while installing it on the tenon. The fit was snug but not so tight that I had to force it any more than any other material. The time wasted has left a bad taste in my mouth for tagua nut. I'm not sure I'll revisit it again. If you do decide to try it, keep in mind that it can be brittle when thin like on shank rings and if you're fitting it on a tenon, make sure the hole is over-sized a bit.

wdteipen wrote: The time wasted has left a bad taste in my mouth for tagua nut.

Wayne, as hard as tagua nuts are, I'm surprised you get any taste at all out of them.

Rad

RadDavis wrote:

wdteipen wrote: The time wasted has left a bad taste in my mouth for tagua nut.

Wayne, as hard as tagua nuts are, I'm surprised you get any taste at all out of them.

Rad

You have to roast them on an open fire, around Christmas time.

RadDavis wrote:

wdteipen wrote: The time wasted has left a bad taste in my mouth for tagua nut.

Wayne, as hard as tagua nuts are, I'm surprised you get any taste at all out of them.

Rad

The taste isn't so bad and I've repurposed the tagua nuts I have left over for sharpening my canines. I do love my steak.

wdteipen wrote:

RadDavis wrote:

wdteipen wrote: The time wasted has left a bad taste in my mouth for tagua nut.

Wayne, as hard as tagua nuts are, I'm surprised you get any taste at all out of them.

Rad

The taste isn't so bad and I've repurposed the tagua nuts I have left over for sharpening my canines. I do love my steak.

I didn't realize they were an 'eating nut'. Weird.

wdteipen wrote:If you do decide to try it, keep in mind that it can be brittle when thin like on shank rings and if you're fitting it on a tenon, make sure the hole is over-sized a bit.

Thanks for the advice Wayne. Now I just have to wait a few weeks before I get home so I can actually try it out. I hate waiting!

If you are like me, you have a number of fine smoking pipes that have ivory shank decorations. The value of these pipes is about to be rendered zero. Read on.

A Presidential Advisory Committee tasked with considering strategies to reduce trafficking in ivory plans to recommend a total ban on the sale of all ivory. This will include pre-ban ivory and antique ivory, even fossilized mammoth ivory.

What this means is that your ivory-keyed Grandma’s piano will be illegal to sell. Antique ivory in knives, guns, guitars, basses, musical instruments, pool cues, smoking pipes, netsuke, furniture, etc., will all be illegal to sell. This recommendation will reduce the value of precious collectibles and family heirlooms to nothing.

http://www.apassionforpipes.com/neills- ... s-abo.html

But then there's black market value, which will go up. When the black market value goes up, I think it will be bad for the elephant population, which I think is supposed to be what this ban seeks to protect.