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Yes. Vinegar + tannin = black. Tannin first, then vinegar.

KurtHuhn wrote:Yes. Vinegar + tannin = black. Tannin first, then vinegar.

Or is it (vinegar + baking soda) + tannin ???

(also - is your tannin solution just a mix of tannin & water?)

1 - apply tanin solution
2 - let dry overnight
3 - apply vinegar
4 - let sit for several hours
5 - repeat vinegar application as needed letting dry before...
6 - neutralize vinegar with baking soda solution

KurtHuhn wrote:1 - apply tanin solution
2 - let dry overnight
3 - apply vinegar
4 - let sit for several hours
5 - repeat vinegar application as needed letting dry before...
6 - neutralize vinegar with baking soda solution

Thats what i was looking for!! Cheers Kurt!

Hmm, first attempt was no so successful. Took a scrap of briar and gave it 2 good coats of really concentrated tannin then left it o dry last night, this morning before i went to work i gave it a couple of coats of vineagar then left it all day, tonight it just a pale brown colour. Doing something wrong?

No idea, really. I've only done a grand total of one pipe like this. I'm going to try and get a couple more done over the next week before I head to Columbus.

Did you neutralize the vinegar?

Källman wrote:Did you neutralize the vinegar?

Yep, this was when i got the colour, but very little.

More experimentation needed with varying concentrations i think.

KurtHuhn wrote:1 - apply tanin solution
2 - let dry overnight
3 - apply vinegar
4 - let sit for several hours
5 - repeat vinegar application as needed letting dry before...
6 - neutralize vinegar with baking soda solution

FWIW, here are some options to play with:

If you don't have tannin, just brew up a really strong jar of tea. Works quite nice as a base.

Heat your stummel before applying the tea/tannin - suspend it on something and microwave for 30 sec intermittent periods until it's hot to touch but hasn't cracked or exploded yet. It will slurp up the tea that way.

FWIW, I've never bothered with overnight drying. An hour in nice weather seems fine.

The vinegar effect can be amped up by soaking some extremely nasty, rusted steel wool & nails in the vinegar for a week or more. Pour off solution and use. (I use 7% and have often wondered what effect I might get if I could lay hands on laboratory-concentrated acetic acid)

I've never yet used baking soda to neutralize this, nor heard of anyone using it? Why is it needed? Normally I just apply step two, let dry overnight, and then it's fine thereafter, at least once I've applied the Underpants Gnomes.

Phase 1- Collect underpants
Phase 2- ???
Phase 3- $$PROFIT!$$

TreverT wrote:
Phase 1- Collect underpants
Phase 2- ???
Phase 3- $$PROFIT!$$

Secret South Park kaka contrast stain?

Iv experemented with red tea latley. When i started out i had this idea that i only wanted to use natrual dying methods- things that wernt harmful in any way.

What effect do you get from your method? Darker high-lights? Any pictures?

The very first experiment in this vein was with a very strong cup of black tea. The tannins did provide some contrast, but the results were much better using straight tannic acid.

Basically what it does is make for a very strong contrast. The tannins react with the acid (and iron if you use Alan L's suggestion) and turn very dark in the places where they've soaked in to the wood - which is usually only the more porous areas. When you buff off the outer layer, the contrast remains.

I used to be a furniture maker and have used a fuming process to draw out the natural tannins out of wood for natural coloring. I have only done this with oak (turning it to a brown color), but maybe briar will have some reactions worth trying.

The process involves making an air tight tent around your project and placing a tub of ammonia (in glass or plastic, but NOT metal) on the floor of the tent. Household ammonia really contains less than 5% ammonia, but there is ammonium hydroxide which contains 25% ammonia. I do remember that if you place certain metals in the ammonia, it turns the wood different colors. I think it was either a galvanized nail or a copper nail that was used.

Anyone ever fool around with this process?

I was thinking of dying a pipe jet black, but burning the alcohol out of the alcohol based dye once it is applied to the pipe, making the drying instant. Then a quick buff to remove enough stain to see the grain. Then maybe placing in the ammonia tent to see what bleeds out of the wood, through the jet black stain.

Maybe it's a hair-brained idea, but probably worth a shot.

Trever's post earlier in this thread on ammonia-toning is informative, I think. Aside from the fact that ammonia-toning produces, in my experience, a more even, uniform color that would, if anything, lessen contrast, there's the smell/taste. Burning off the alcohol in aniline dye preparations has been done for a while. It does seem to set the color harder, but doesn't solve the problem of the resulting contrast stain being soluble by subsequent dye applications. The tannin process in this thread seems quite promising.

Iv also wondered about that- how long the taste of ammonia sticks to the pipe. Isnt it pritty dangerous to smoke ammonia? How does one get rid of the ammonia bleeding from the pipe? Smoke it out?

I really don't think ammonia fuming would be a great idea. It's great for oak furniture, but all things considered, I'd give it a pass for pipes. The reasons are specifically what Trever mentioned in another thread: it smelled very strongly for a very long period afterward.

I managed to find some time to play with this again, and the results were... different. This time around I switched things up a little and I came out with a reddish-purple color.

I used a jar of vinegar that I use for etching knife blades, and the piece of wood I started out with had a very reddish cast naturally, indicating to me that it was already full of tannin[0]. I also used black emery compound as the initial polish to get off the top layer of black, then switched to tripoli. I did not get a strong contrast at all, and while the overall effect was attractive, it wasn't exactly what I was aiming for. I'll take a pic later if I find a few minutes.

The vinegar I used this time around does have some dissolved iron, but that would not have turned the wood purple. What I surmise at this point is that, since the wood was already full of tannins, the vinegar reaction acted upon the whole of the wood, and slightly more where the wood soaked in some of the extra tannic acid that I applied. My theory is that a properly processed piece of wood, like the first example, will show much more contrast due to having a very light natural color.

Next week I'll try some more experimentation. For now I have to finish up a bunch of stuff before the NASPC show.

[0] This is some junk briar that I got about 4 years ago and can't use for pipes because it tastes like a grizzly bear's butt, so I use it for knife handles, pens, and other stuff. No door handles yet though.

Well I ordered and received some tannic acid in powder form. I ,ixed iyt with warm distilled water and applied to a slab of briar left over from my last pipe. I waited 24 hours and reapplied the tannic acid and again waited 24 hours. I then applied the vinegar and waited and waited and waited somemore and..................NADA! Nothing really happened other than a few black specks but thats about it. Any suggestions?

Tsunami wrote:Well I ordered and received some tannic acid in powder form. I ,ixed iyt with warm distilled water and applied to a slab of briar left over from my last pipe. I waited 24 hours and reapplied the tannic acid and again waited 24 hours. I then applied the vinegar and waited and waited and waited somemore and..................NADA! Nothing really happened other than a few black specks but thats about it. Any suggestions?

Well I added some rusty bolts to the vinegar and recoated the samples with the tannic acid mixture. I recoated a second and third time letting them dry overnight. I then took the vinegar with the rusty bolts in it and coated the samples. I came home this evening and all samples were pitch black! Man I had to use some elbow grease with sandpaper to get the grain to show. I will post some pics of the samples with various stain strips on them when I get a chance.

That sounds awesome! Looking forward to the pictures. I have got to try this aswell. Ok lets see... elbowgrease, rusty bolts..