Lovat for your Critical Eye

[sandahlpipe]

This lovat is something I've made in the past, but have improved certain details about the shape, the blast, and the transitions.

I already know what's wrong with it (I think) but for your entertainment, go ahead and rip it to shreds.

[PremalChheda]

I'd like to see you make a lovat now with all the corrections.

[sandahlpipe]

Me too...but are there any corrections I may have missed?

[PremalChheda]

Me too...but are there any corrections I may have missed?

Why don't you list all of the things you think are wrong so we can see.

[sandahlpipe]

Ah. Ok.

The shank is a little under 1/8" wide on the right side as seen in picture 6.
The same side of the bowl has a cheek that got blasted too deeply.
There's the slightest bit of a lip on the top of the stem as it transitions to the shank/sandblast.
The slot is just a hair off center from the sides. (I don't know if you can see it at all in the pictures due to shadows.
The bottom of the shank in the middle has a spot that interrupts the straight bottom line.

Most of these are issues which I believe can be chalked up to amateur blasting and I just need practice.

Anything else you see is probably something I haven't noticed yet.

[PremalChheda]

Ah. Ok.

The shank is a little under 1/8" wide on the right side as seen in picture 6.
The same side of the bowl has a cheek that got blasted too deeply.
There's the slightest bit of a lip on the top of the stem as it transitions to the shank/sandblast.
The slot is just a hair off center from the sides. (I don't know if you can see it at all in the pictures due to shadows.
The bottom of the shank in the middle has a spot that interrupts the straight bottom line.

Most of these are issues which I believe can be chalked up to amateur blasting and I just need practice.

Anything else you see is probably something I haven't noticed yet.

It is really hard to give an accurate critique of the shape due to all of the shots being at slight angles.

The shape being distorted by the blast is acceptable to a point until it really throws the shape off. More experience will help remedy this.

The bowl looks like it is canted forward a bit too much, but I cannot really tell because there is no real dead on side shot provided.

The cylindrical portion of the saddle needs to be longer and straighter. There is a bit of rolling on top, and maybe the bottom.

The curved portion of the saddle is too abrupt since it looks like you are going for a curve. Either a hard line or graceful curve would look better.

On the bowl portion where the bowl meets the shank, there needs to be a little curvature back in or coming in a little differently.

The heel of the bowl looks to be very different from front side to backside regardless of blasting error.

It is a nice pipe overall with a craggy blast. I think with some patience on the file/sanding for final shaping will provide excellent results on the new one you make.

[Joe Hinkle Pipes]

I agree with a lot of what Premal said. The thing that stuck out to me immediately is the bowl height. It looks about 3/8" too tall to me , although it may have been a design choice you made. i did a lovat/chimney commission recently that was super tall and craggy. The customer really liked it, but it isn't a shape i would have made just for fun.

[sandahlpipe]

Premal,

Thank you for the feedback. The only thing I might quibble over is the length of the cylindrical part of the stem. I do tend to like my saddle running closer to the shank as a design choice. I've also got to look at the saddle itself. It looks more awkward in the picture than I remember on the pipe itself.

I think the heel and front/back error shows as such because of the bowl being tilted too far forward.

Joe,
You're right that the bowl is a bit tall for a classic lovat. This was a design choice on my end, but it is a deviation from a classic lovat. Thanks for chiming in.

[scotties22]

Me Jane......Me say "Master give you advise.....GGOOOOODDDD advise.........listen to what the Master says.....he is right about the saddle length!!"

There is no design choice about it. It is actually a proportion thing...ratio thing, call it what you will. The saddle being a little short throws the proportions off on the pipe. It makes it look like the stem was something you found in a drawer and decided to just jam on the pipe because it fit....really really disrupts the lines you have going on the rest of the pipe.

Your stem from the top view also looks like it leans a little to the left. I'm guessing it's because the flares to the button don't match exactly. An easy way to fix that is to cut the top profile while you have the rodstock on the lathe.

[sandahlpipe]

Scottie,

or Jane...or whatever.

The stem is actually entirely too short for the pipe. Generally, stem needs to be the same length as the height of the bowl on a lovat. This one is a shorter stem. Also, because of how small the pipe is, the saddle being any further forward would seriously mess up the ability to get it between your teeth. So it's somewhat of a practical consideration of having started with a smaller piece of cumberland than I should have.

As for the leaning of the stem, I think that's because I took the pictures all catawampus that it looks like that. I'm pretty darned careful when I shape the stem to make sure it's symmetrical.

[scotties22]

Oh...I know what the proper proportions should be on a lovat....and all other "classic" shapes.

If you took the liberty to increase the bowl height away from a classic lovat (your design choice), why didn't you also increase the length of the stem? This would have stayed with the proportions you chose for this version of a lovat. And there's nothing wrong with that, but if you are going to do it on one part of the pipe you HAVE TO do it across the board.

Don't get me wrong, I like the pipe. I like the bowl height and especially like the cant you have given the bowl. The stem just doesn't belong on this pipe at all. You MUST BE thoughtful in every aspect of your design. And here it feels like the stem was an afterthought.

And I'm not trying to start some "artistic license" debate. This was billed as a lovat and is being critiqued as such.

[sandahlpipe]

Scottie,

You're right. I should have increased the stem length. All I was getting at is that I think the issue is more one of stem length than it is the length of the cylindrical part of the stem that doesn't work. Sometimes you've got to try things to see why they don't work. As I've read here (I can't remember where) you've got to go too far to know how far you can go. I've made a half dozen lovats with stems that were the proper length. I know now that it doesn't improve the shape to shorten the stem on this design.

[scotties22]

Thank you for the feedback. The only thing I might quibble over is the length of the cylindrical part of the stem. I do tend to like my saddle running closer to the shank as a design choice. I've also got to look at the saddle itself. It looks more awkward in the picture than I remember on the pipe itself.

This says differently.

AND stem length aside.....the saddle is too short no matter how long or short the stem is. Wayne gave me some great advise once about the saddle length. He said it should be about the same as the diameter of the shank. Every one I have made with that in mind has come out right.

And you say the stem is too short.....how short are we talking? I have made little saddle bits there weren't even 2" long and was able to properly proportion the saddle.

[sandahlpipe]

And you say the stem is too short.....how short are we talking? I have made little saddle bits there weren't even 2" long and was able to properly proportion the saddle.

The stem from face to button is only about an inch long. It probably needed another quarter to half inch. In that case, the saddle could have started a bit later and been just fine. The pictures really don't show how small this pipe is. It's just under 5" long.

Can we talk about something else I did wrong now?

[scotties22]

What are the dimensions of the rest of the pipe?

[sandahlpipe]

I forgot to measure this one and it's in the mail already. The bowl is about 1.6" tall. Chamber is about 3/4" by 1.5" deep. Weight is about .8 oz. These are just rough guesses since I forgot to measure it.

[Oakbear]

As a regular lurker, infrequent poster and newbie maker i just want to say i love these super picky critiques. Really helps me train my eye.

For what it's worth i agree the cylindrical part of the stem should be longer too.

[PremalChheda]

Premal,

Thank you for the feedback. The only thing I might quibble over is the length of the cylindrical part of the stem. I do tend to like my saddle running closer to the shank as a design choice. I've also got to look at the saddle itself. It looks more awkward in the picture than I remember on the pipe itself.

I think the heel and front/back error shows as such because of the bowl being tilted too far forward.

Joe,
You're right that the bowl is a bit tall for a classic lovat. This was a design choice on my end, but it is a deviation from a classic lovat. Thanks for chiming in.

The length of the cylindrical part of stem is subjective. I would suggest if running it short like you have it, make sure to have some vert on the radius and it will look very good.

[Sasquatch]

I have difficulty making choices about things like barrel length so I won't comment on that.

As Premal said, it's a handsome pipe, colors work, blast is nice.

What I see is a shank that isn't straight, it flares as you get near the bowl, and that's indicative of either a poorly cut taper (you hardly need ANY on this kind of pipe) or maybe a guy blasted the middle of the shank more than the rest and so it shows as a real slow slouchy curve in just about every orientation.

The bowl height I don't mind, but the shape isn't great - if it was shaped just right, I think the height would work. Here's the thing: you can make a "billiard" with basically straight walls. But then... do that. OR you can make a billiard with nicely curved walls. The Danes take this almost to Brandy shape with most of their billiards, where if you look at old Charatans, Dunhills, Kaywoodies, you'll see a much more vertical presentation. Your bowl is rounded bottom and straight top (or maybe even blasted a little less than straight in spots).

Figuring this out, and I can't really say it any different than I have to help you, but figuring this out, how the curves on a billiard bowl have to work to make the bowl look right (and that is the order of the causality here) is critical.

Have a look at the lovat 3rd from the top right. Vertical walls, nice open presentation. The rest of the billiards in that box are more curved.




You're pipe is somewhere between those ideas and that's my criticism.

[sandahlpipe]

Sas, you've really got to work on that gap between shank and stem...

Seriously, though, I think you're touching on the same thing I said. The shape was just how I wanted it going into the blaster and I may have blasted unevenly in spots. The top of the bowl is indeed straight and I did intend to have a slight curve there near the top, but I can't remember now whether I blasted it away or forgot to put it there in the first place. Shame on me either way.