Why do we use delrin?

[DMI]

Ok, as far as I can tell the one good thing about delrin is that is cheap, I accept there may be other good points about delrin, self lubricating for instance, but I hate using it. Yes I scrape it and roughen it but still have problems glueing it, I'm thinking about taps and dies to actually thread it into place. I have read the sticky and current and past threads concerning this and with the number of people having problems I have to ask why do we use it?

As I come from a pipe repair/refurb background it was more normal for me to turn down a broken stem to make a new tennon or use a piece of black acrylic, simple to make and glue. I am fast coming to the conclusion that Delrin is not for me and that I will buy some thin acrylic and vulcanite rod despite the extra cost, or start searching for an alternative.



I really feel like I'm hitting myself over the head on this one.

[RadDavis]

Who's "we"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

I've never used Delrin, but your idea about taps & dies is not a bad one. I know Mark Tinsky cut's threads on delrin for tenons and taps the stem on pipe repairs. He puts a few drops of super glue on the threads and screws them into the stem. Then he can turn the tenon to size, face the shoulder and drill it.

I don't know why those other guys use Delrin.

Rad

[ToddJohnson]

Who's "we"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

I've never used Delrin, but your idea about taps & dies is not a bad one. I know Mark Tinsky cut's threads on delrin for tenons and taps the stem on pipe repairs. He puts a few drops of super glue on the threads and screws them into the stem. Then he can turn the tenon to size, face the shoulder and drill it.

I don't know why those other guys use Delrin.

Rad

Ahem . . . !

An Ode to Delrin

by Todd M. Johnson

O sweet Delrin, you're always the same
no smaller or larger in sun or in rain.

At home in the mountains, in dry climes or wet,
your dimensional stability has not failed me yet.

What's that dear customer, your Rad stem is stuck?
Yes, you are right, rubber tenons do suck.

Oh, I mis-heard, so your Rad stem's gone loose?
Just coat it with one of those things that folks use

to gum up a tenon and get it to fit,
some soap, or some wax, or a dab of dog sh**.

Well the seasons are changing and now it's just fine
but wait 'til some dumbass, she dips it in brine

to make it smoke nice to her Deutsch novice tastes
but twists off the shank in her imbecile's haste!

But had delrin been there to spin freely around
then Fraulein would never have made the first sound.

She'd have no real reason to claim, it would seem,
that the pipes that I make have got "rot in the beam."
__________________________

A true story, about a German professor who was advised to give a pipe the "salt and alcohol" treatment by some other bright characters on a German web forum. After doing so, but before letting the pipe dry out, she removed the stem with half the delicate shank still friction fit to it! Using Bablefish she made the claim that--and I quote--my pipes are "rotten in the beam." For the record, there's absolutely nothing wrong with ebonite tenons and even Delrin, as great as it is, cannot fully protect one from stupidity. So to conclude my argument, Rad smells bad and still does not know his alphabet.

TJ

[SimeonTurner]

That. Was. AWESOME.

[Sasquatch]

Todd, using unrelated but clearly true "premises" to support a conclusion which is both equally obvious and utterly useless is seen as pretty bad form amongst the logic crowd. I suggest a reductio next time, in which you assume Rad's pipes are good (and everyone else's, in fact) then show them in a bad light, leaving only your own as a sensible conclusion.

However, +2 for rhyming couplets and decent meter.

So a score of 8.5, which puts you above the Russian skater who fell, but below the German with big breasts.

[kbadkar]

I think Kurt needs to add a Poetry Slam section in the Pipe Making category.

[Sasquatch]

Kris, poetry fits
Wherever we lay the seeds
Blooming through the cracks

[KurtHuhn]

An Ode to Delrin

Absolutely brilliant!!

In answer to the OP, Todd hit on most of it. Dimensional stability and consistent size. Other than that, using glued-in tenon can help with difficult airways or mortis arrangements. Or if you don't have a metal lathe, and don't want to hand-cut tenons.

[Nick]

Oh Pipeman, my pipeman, a sonnet

Oh pipeman, my pipeman
How garilous your wit
Your belly like flan
You fat lazy git

An icon to which I aspire
And a craftman fine
You're bogarting the briar
Dammit, gimme mine

Of blassted or smooth
I don't give a rats ass
Your bowels are about to move
Eee gad man, watch the gas

So teach me, oh pipeman. Let me not drown
Yeesh! A couple hours instruction, and you want me to go down?

[DMI]

Nick I'm not sure what your relationship with Todd is but your last two lines make it sound very personal:

So teach me, oh pipeman. Let me not drown
Yeesh! A couple hours instruction, and you want me to go down?

Yes I've sunk to that level.



Back to the point, would a delrin mortice be as effective? In which case you could ........

ok any gap between the stem and the bottom mortice face seems to attract the gunk in a pipe so if the mortice were fully lined with delrin, as opposed to just a tube, you would have an easy clean surface that shouldn't stick. Add an ss stinger to protect the airway and you would have a very easy to clean pipe.

I think I'll have a play tomorrow.

And before some eedyut says something of course you make a hole for the airway.

[DMI]

Delrin 3 David 1

So you take a piece of 8mm Delrin (actually 8.35mm) drill a hole through it, then use the cut off tool to make it groooovey.
Take a piece of bamboo and drill through with an 8.5 mm drill (actually 8.37).
Put a bit of wax in the airway of the delrin, mix a quick setting epoxy and apply to the inside of the bamboo, insert delrin rotating as you do so. Leave glue to set.
1 hour later check epoxy for curing, test the adhesion by pulling out delrin. Note with satisfaction the lovely smooth finish on the inside of the bamboo.
Remove set epoxy from delrin and repeat using ca.
1 hour later check ca for curing, test the adhesion by pulling out delrin. Note with satisfaction the lovely smooth finish on the inside of the bamboo.
Cut new piece of delrin and put deeeeeeep grooves in it.
Put a bit of wax in the airway of the delrin, mix a quick setting epoxy and apply to the inside of the bamboo and delrin, insert delrin rotating as you do so. Leave glue to set.
1 hour later check epoxy for curing, test the adhesion by pulling out delrin. Hang on it won't come out, must be something wrong.

Chuck up the extension and trim ends of bamboo.
Drill and take two slices of imitation tortoise shell.
Mix a small amount of epoxy and mount the slices.
1 hour later check epoxy for curing, test the adhesion by pulling off slices.
Clean off epoxy and glue slices to bamboo and delrin with ca.
1 hour later check ca for curing. Yipeeeeeeeeeeee
Hang on, carefully remove glued finger.

Chuck up extension trim the slices and sand at 400.

Select and modify stem as required, tap inside of stem, apply epoxy and ca, you see I'm learning, and tape up.
I hour later a nice solid bond.
Tidy up stem and polish.


The socket was the easy bit, 20mm delrin turned to size then drilled with 8.5mm hole then 4.0mm for the ss tube which is a simple push in. The tube has approx 5mm protruding into the socket which goes into the airway of the extension.


Lessons learnt:

When working with delrin belt and braces are required.

I think I will make delrin mortices rather than tennons, it's a lot easier.

Patience is a virtue but so is honesty and she still won't talk to me.

[pennsyscot]

What is the purpose of the socket?
Is the bamboo fully lined with delrin? I thought that the benifit of a bamboo shank was its ability to absorb moisture.

[DMI]

I come from a pipe repair/refurb background so I may look at things a bit differently than someone who makes pipes without seeing what a mess some people can make of a pipe. I have restored quite a few bamboo shanked pipes and the unlined bamboo is disgusting and unless it has been completely drilled out (ie a tube) impossible to clean short of boiling. Part of my pipe making development is to produce an easy clean pipe so fully lining the bamboo is sensible to me, but then I test light sockets with my fingers.

The socket is also part of this but also down to the fact that I hate making delrin tennons.

The combination of the two also helps with the airflow by ruling out any possible gaps and ensuring the same diameter airway from chamber to the taper at the bit. Dunhill had the same theory with thier 'inner tube' system in the 1920's (I think it was the 20's).

If, and it's a big if, the airway etc. is perfect there should be minimal moisture anyway, or so the theory goes.