Help! Stem has a gap:-(

[restever99]

Hello everyone. I am so happy that today I finally had enough time in the shop to start work on my first pipe! I know I know, it's taken me long enough. Everything is coming along great but I have an issue with the stem. There is a hairline gap between the stem and the stummel. I've tried everything, from shortening the tenon, and turning it down a little more. I've even countersunk the mortise as much as I feel comfortable going. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd like to get this problem nipped in the butt before I go any further with finishing. Here are some pictures of the pipe so far. It's made of olive wood. Any other comments would be much appreciated. Please be brutal!

[FredS]

Is the gap all the way around, or is the face of the stem touching stummel at one point? If it's touching at one place then something isn't square (perpendicular).

If it's all the way around then it could be a bunch of things. Tenon bottoming out in the mortise? (shorten the tenon). Radius at corner of the tenon/stem joint too large? (re-cut the radius or enlarge the chamfer in the stummel). Either the face of the stem or the shank could be tapereed so they are touching towards the center, but not around the outside edge (square up the offending surface). Maybe there's just some dust that needs to be wiped out of the joint or a chip laying in the bottom of the mortise.

How are you turning the tenon?

[restever99]

The gap is consistant all the way around. I turned the tenon with the pimo tenon tool. I already shortened the tenon and am left with the same gap. I counter sunk the mortise a little more and no result. I hit it with the air hose and no result.

[SimeonTurner]

It's possible that there is a slight "shoulder" at the base of the tenon that is causing the gap. How deep is your countersinking? Usually a little countersink will eliminate the potential gap caused by a shoulder at the base of the tenon, but it could be that your countersink needs to go slightly deeper still.

Any chance you can take a picture of the mortise sans-stem so we can see what that's looking like? Also, perhaps a pic of the tenon/face of the stem?

[restever99]

Here are some pictures. My camera cannot take closeups so well, it's old, so I apologize for the lack of detail. I feel I have countersunk to the point where it's going to show on the stummel if I go any further. I can notice a slight shoulder at the base of the tenon. How would I go about getting rid of it while keeping that area nice and flat?

[Frank]

It's also possible that you've cut the shank face and/or the stem shoulder at an angle all the way around, instead of them being perpindicular to the centre axis.

Looking at the new photos you added, there's a raised area on the stem face, around the tenon, by the looks of things.

[restever99]

How would I get rid of that raised area as to not cause the face to become uneven? I just checked and cannot adjust the tenon tool to get into there.

[pierredekat]

When all else fails, push the stem and the stummel towards each other while twisting the stem around a few turns, pull the two apart, and look for shiny spots.

Wherever you see a shiny spot, that's where the two pieces are hitting, and that's where you want to remove some material.

If you take your time and keep knocking down the shiny spots, sooner or later you should be able to mate pretty much any stem to any stummel.

[ckr]

Take a two inch square of 220 sand paper, cut a hole in it the same size as the tenon. Insert stem with tenon through the hole and paper facing shank. Press together tight but not so tight to rip the sand paper. Support pipe somehow and grab corners of sand paper and rotate it a couple of times. Press stem closer, turn and rotate. Keep doing this until the shank conforms to the face of the tenon and without the sandpaper the two meet.

Put lathe on "get tool list".

[Nick]

Another tip is to use a drill gauge in the same manner suggested above - hole in the paper

If you have a lathe, get some pin gauges and square the shank off using a pin gauge stuck in the mortise and chucked in your lathe

[FredS]

Next time, make your mortise & tenon 9/16" deep/long. That way you can use the Pimo tool to cut the shoulder on your stem.

For now, if I were you, I'd shorten your tenon to 9/16", cut the shoulder with the Pimo tool and live with a small gap at the bottom of the mortise.

[restever99]

Thanks for all the tips. I'm going to give it a try this weekend when I have some time. I do plan on getting a lathe/mill very soon as I need it for much more than just pipe making. I was thinking about this one:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Lathe-Mill/G4015Z

Anyone out there use it?

[Frank]

I have the Smithy 1220XL version, similar thing. I've been satisfied (but not thrilled) with mine for many years now, but most lathe users would recommend a separate dedicated lathe and mill. It's not bad for the price, but some major disadvantages of that machine are: Only has one motor running both lathe and mill; No variable motor speed; The better quality ones have both X and Y power feed. Bear in mind, tooling up can get expensive.

I noticed they make it sound like a bigger machine, but all they've done is increased height and length. The lathe only has a MT3 spindle, whereas mine has a MT4 spindle.

For the same price as the Grizzly, this is way more machine: Combo

See what the other guys have to say. Do a lot of shopping around before you buy.

[restever99]

Yeah, I've been shopping around for almost a year now. Also my job has me moving around every couple of years so I'm hesistant to set up anything more than a basic basement shop if I have to pack up heavy tools and ship them.

[KurtHuhn]

For a simple and rather light lathe, a Jet JML-1014 is a great small lathe. It's a wood lathe, so some operations will take practice versus using a metal lathe. A drill press is also a great tool to have around, and a decent one can be had for relatively short money.

Whatever you do, steer clear of the 7x10 or 7x12 teensy metal lathes that seem to be everywhere. They're pure garbage. I had the displeasure of using one once - it made me want to stab kittens and bludgeon myself with a baby seal. Against my advice a friend bought one, and he's been in machinist hell until just recently when he disassembled it and sold off the pieces to other suckers. Now he uses a Craftsman/Atlas lathe that he got for almost nothing, and is in the process of restoring a few old Rivetts that he picked up for free.

If you want a new lathe for stem work, are concerned about size and price, look at Sherline and Taig - both are very good from what I understand. The same friend mentioned above has a Sherline mill and absolutely loves it.

[restever99]

I have a nice old school drill press I got from my grandfather. It has a great vice on it too. It has served me well for a while now and has that awesome vintage green look and sexy art deco lines. I will look into those lathes you suggested and might try and am considering talking my old shop out of theirs. It's just collecting dust because the students don't know or care how to use it.

[Tano]

I had the same problem way back when I was using the pimo tool. I found that if you loosen the set screw and adjust the angle of the cutting edge you will remove a little more material that is closer to the tenon.

[restever99]

Thank you for all your advice. I used it on another pipe today and the stem fit perfectly! The thing smokes like a dream, but looks ugly as sin. So I'll have to try again on the looks.