Processing Manzanita

[pierredekat]

Okay, we're no experts on processing manzanita, but my buddy Richard and I thought that if we used a procedure similar to the one they use for Mediterranean briar, that might at least be a pretty good starting point.

We are both running similar test runs with similar results thus far. And we were both going to try to photograph our work, except that I was having camera issues that day, so most of these pictures, with the exception of the boiling, were taken by Richard.


Richard looking the block over and preparing to saw.


Taking off a slice.


Cut completed.


Inspecting.


One block, ready to boil.


A really cool block with some nice figure.


Blocks ready to boil.


Blocks boiling.


Draining off the water. Note the color of the water.

Once the blocks cooled and the surface moisture had evaporated, we both placed our blocks in ziplock bags for storage. Richard had a really good idea of putting a date on his bags, and I did the same.

Our plan is to let the blocks spend a few weeks in the sealed ziplock bags so they can reach some sort of moisture equilibrium

And then we plan to start the second stage of the drying process, by poking one finger-sized hole in the ziplock bag in about a month.

Depending on how that drying proceeds, we may poke an additional hole in the bag in two or three months, or we may just let that one finger-sized hole in the bag do the trick.

[ckr]

Same color as my water and after 2 more water changes it starts to clear. Usually after it hits that reddish brown I start another pot and when it is heated up I transfer the blocks to the fresh pot. After 12 hours it is almost as red/brown as the first pour and by the third it is noticably lighter. Sometimes it has taken four changes before I feel most of the resins are removed.

So by my way of thinking there is still a lot of resin remaining in that wood. That said, if you tend to think I may be right and want to put them on the fire again I would caution to try just a few of the blocks only. I don't allow the blocks to cool between water changes because I believe that the cooling/reheating causes additional stress to the wood's structure and the resulting blocks will be more prone to cracking.

[pierredekat]

Thanks. Yeah, I was kinda debating about changing the water halfway through, and I ended up just using the same water all the way through.

My reasoning is that water is a lot like a sponge: you can dissolve several cups of sugar, salt, etc., in a gallon of water before it reaches its saturation point.

And of course, if the water temperature goes up, it can hold a whole lot more sugar, salt, etc.

But perhaps with resins, there may be some good reasons to remove what you can, periodically.

Like, that color, for instance. I'm guessing that by changing the water more regularly, your wood blocks may wind up a lighter color than if you kept the same water all the way through.

It would be interesting to do a side-by-side test to see how the blocks compare, huh?

[KurtHuhn]

This is absolutely fascinating. Keep us updated!

CKR: are you boiling briar, or manzanita, or....? We should try to hook up this weekend and talk shop. Are you going to be around?

[Frank]

Yeah, I was kinda debating about changing the water halfway through, and I ended up just using the same water all the way through.

My reasoning is that water is a lot like a sponge: you can dissolve several cups of sugar, salt, etc., in a gallon of water before it reaches its saturation point.

And of course, if the water temperature goes up, it can hold a whole lot more sugar, salt, etc.

Regard it as similar to brining meat, but in reverse. The resins are drawn out into the water until the resin content of the wood matches that of the resin content of the water. Even though it is much diluted with the water, there will still be a fair amount of resin in the overall solution. I would think that at least one change of (boiling) water is required.
That's just my logic, Rob. You're doing a great job as it is.

[ckr]

kh,
A lot of Locust, Cherry and Osage Orange but I also have a lot more briar burls yet to be cut. The holiday week is pretty much committed to remodeling since it effects my wallet. Not as much fun as pipemaking

[ckr]

Color;
When the blocks are removed they always seem to be the same crappy color as the water. After they are dry enough, sand the outer layer that is all discolored and compare it to the same wood that has not been boiled. You will notice the change.
When I split a briar burl the center wood has real deep reddish tones, sometimes refered to as bloodwood, where after the boiling the blocks lose the color.

Sealed in plastic; Don't freak, but they will probably start to grow mold. I normally place them all in a kitchen size trash bag and let them collectively provide a high RH environment. The bag is just folded over. For the first few weeks I keep a close eye on the blocks, sometimes I will leave the top open to allow air exchange and on a weekend I may leave them in the open for a couple of hours. It is a futzing kind of thing getting the real high moisture content down until they can be put in the bag without the water pooling in the bag. Kind of like get the excess water out with out allowing them to crack, then a slow dry.

[KurtHuhn]

kh,
A lot of Locust, Cherry and Osage Orange but I also have a lot more briar burls yet to be cut. The holiday week is pretty much committed to remodeling since it effects my wallet. Not as much fun as pipemaking

And that's one hell of a project, too. You're a lot braver than I am. I might go help out a friend that's a cabinetmaker this weekend. He's got a bunch of kitchen cabinets he needs to get built before Christmas.

[pierredekat]

This is absolutely fascinating. Keep us updated!

Thanks. Will do. Yeah, so far it's kinda been a labor-of-love. I really like the idea of tapping into a material that's been pretty much untapped since WWII. But someday I could see it making dollars and cents to do it, especially if a few people decide manzanita has other merits, besides just being local/domestic.

Edit: Speaking of, here's an awesome picture that Richard took of that last manzanita bulldog, alongside a couple pieces of manzanita, in front of a cool old sign for Monterey Pipes, circa WWII.



Check out the little manzanita plant next to "Mission Briar". Richard found this sign in an antique shop just days after his first harvest and decided he had to have it. Almost uncanny, if you ask me.

[Nick]

I wonder if anyone would really notice the difference?

[Frank]

Robert, we haven't heard anything back yet about your further foray into curing and using manzanita. I would still be interested in getting a couple of blocks if it isn't too expensive.

[Anvil]

I noticed that this isn't a new post, but its one that I haven't read before. Can someone fill the uninitiated in on what manzanita is exactly and where it is 'local'? It would also be great to hear how this project is progressing.

[kbadkar]

We have Manzanita all over the California coastal regions (chaparral). It's shrubby normally but grows to a small tree, if given the opportunity. They often burn up in wild fires and if I remember correctly, they like it that way. I'm sure an internet search would have all the info. Here's the wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manzanita

Note that it is of the Ericaceae family, like briar. I remember R.Perkins had a post about Manzanita before this one with more info about it. Let me see if I can dig it up. I'm not sure how to link to it, but it's called "Manzanita Bulldog (pictures)".

[Danskpibemager]

Anvil,
When the post about manzanita first appeared on this forum I immediately jumped on the bandwagon and began a 12 month journey that turned into a dead end for me. I've experimented with many different alternative woods for pipes, some good, some not so good. I've tried many different species of rod from different manufacturers hoping to come up with something that machines and works and has the feel of Ebonite. After spending close to $700 USD on all this R & D, the best wood is still briar and I believe I have finally found something that behaves just like Ebonite. I will post results here when I'm done testing the material I found. As for the Manzanita, I was fortunate to connect with a supplier in California who dug up a 60 LB. green burl for me and shipped it to me. I cut it up into plateau and ebauchon blocks (we all know how much fun it is to cut wet wood) and boiled them for 12 hours with 6 water changes during that time. When done they resembled Algerian briar in every way and even smelled like it. Fast forward 10 months after slow drying and I began to work the blocks. There are really not any sand pits that come up but rather gaping caverns that show up. To make a long story short, out of the 30 blocks that I had available from the root, it only produced 6 pipes and alot of aggravation. For me the process was a learning experience but not something I'd do again. I can appreciate what a block of briar costs now that I've been through the process. Perhaps Pierredekat or someone else has had better luck and will post their results.
Just my $.02. Regards, Kevin

[KurtHuhn]

Fast forward 10 months after slow drying and I began to work the blocks. There are really not any sand pits that come up but rather gaping caverns that show up. To make a long story short, out of the 30 blocks that I had available from the root, it only produced 6 pipes and alot of aggravation. For me the process was a learning experience but not something I'd do again. I can appreciate what a block of briar costs now that I've been through the process. Perhaps Pierredekat or someone else has had better luck and will post their results.

Drying green wood is, and always has been, a crap shoot - especially for anything of any thickness. However, you can mitigate the effects by very carefully managing the moisture content of the wood. Slow, in this context, just isn't strong enough a term. You want to be sure that the wood dries on a schedule of years rather than months. For instance, behind me on the shelves I have a vase I turned from a freshly felled dogwood tree. It's covered in wax emulsion, in a plastic grocery bag, and has been drying since April. If I'm lucky, it might be ready to finish by next Christmas. My patience is paying off, however, as there's no cracks evident anywhere.

There are shortcuts, some of shich I don't actually recommend. For our purposes, using a something like Pentacryl is a no-no, but for a turner making decorative bowls, it might be okay to use. Microwave drying could be tried - I've used it on an osage orange bowl I made about a year ago and it worked great. The theory is that the heat makes the cellulose flexible and stretchy so that it doesn't rip apart while dehydrating - though I don't think anyone has actually tried this with a R2-1/2 sized piece of wood.

Now, all that said, I do have some Locust that CKR processed and gave me a while back, and I recently used some on a knife handle with great results. I forget how long he said it took to dry it, but I think the real secret here is patience. 10 months is a very short time from boiling to usage for a block as big as something for pipes, and I think it would probably have been better with at least two years on it.

[Danskpibemager]

Kurt,
I couldn't agree more with what you said and 10 months does seem to be a short time in comparison to how long briar is dried. The blocks of manzanita were completely dry or I wouldn't even attempt to carve. The biggest problem was large gaps internally that were filled with sand and small rocks, etc. versus cracks from quick drying. There is no way even 10 years of drying could overcome voids of that size. The 6 pipes that did turn out were sold locally to pipesmokers and they have reported them to be excellant smokers. At least some good came out of my efforts. My bottom line was that it wasn't worth all the trouble and served as more of a learning experience for me.

Kevin

[KurtHuhn]

Ah, yeah - rocks and sand is different than voids. But, that's why we pay other people to cut the burls for us.

[RadDavis]

I could be wrong, but it seems like Mimmo told me, or I read it somewhere, that his blocks are dry and ready to work in about 8 months.

Rad

[KurtHuhn]

You're probably right, Rad. Yazid told me his are dried for 12 months, which may include some embellishment for marketing.

[pierredekat]

Hey, guys, sorry I haven't gotten here sooner.

I've been in the process of upgrading my operating system from Ubuntu Hardy Heron to Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex.

Most of the time you can just do a straight update, but I wasn't happy with my partitioning setup the last time, so I redid the partitions and did a fresh install from scratch.

Of course, there was a fair amount of data and profiles to back up beforehand and then restoring all that mess afterwards.

Anywho, all of my manzanita seems to be doing well so far, though I do still have everything sealed in ziplock bags. I guess I've been erring on the side of caution.

I took most of the blocks out and looked them over, and only one or two blocks have any drying checks that I can see. And even those aren't that bad, as they don't appear to go more than 1/4-inch deep.

Wow, it's hard to believe it's been 10 months since we did this.

Now I'm debating about poking a finger-sized hole in each bag and moving into a little more accelerated drying.

I'm thinking they're about ready to speed up the process a little, now, since you can feel a little bit of dampness, but nothing like they were when we first boiled them.