has anyone started shaping a block yet for the sf/ds

jbacon · Post by **jbacon** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:15 pm

just wondering if anyone (who has purchased a set of spoon bits from brad) has started to shape out a pipe (no i have not yet, but will very soon)
just curious to know- any thoughts if you have

jim

jbacon · Post by **jbacon** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:11 pm

kind of weird to reply to myself
i guess my thoughts were like this - i wonder when brad will get the spoon bits done - well i guess i will get started when the bits arrive and then it hits me like a ton of bricks. brad will get the bits done when he gets them done period. So WTF am i waiting on. this is a SF/DS . i have to work the whole weenend and have mon-tue off so i will start mon

have 15 blocks laid out and my grinding wheel ready

my grinding wheel is 2 back to back carbon fiber discs from 3m(green in color 36 grit) mounted on a motor.

jim

marks · Post by **marks** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:46 am

As there will be a learning curve in this for me, possibly a big one, I plan on practicing with 2x4's instead of briar till I get my technique down and figure this SF/DS stuff out.

sethile · Post by **sethile** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:36 am

I'm real excited about this too, but like Marks, I'm reluctant to dive right into good briar. I'm sure it willl be like learning from scratch all over again.

First I'll rough in a pipe like shape on some sort of hardwood scrap and drill that by hand. Then I'll graduate to some ebauchons I seem to have kicking around in abundance right now. Once I have a little more confidence I'm not going to ruin everything I touch I'll risk some medium grade plateaux. Then I'll dive into a nice block.

ckr · Post by **ckr** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:01 am

I haven't thought about it too much - a home renovation has pretty much killed my free time. However, when I purchased the set it was pretty much to have as an option not as a replacement. I would continue to do my drilling the same way for a rustificated pipe and even smooths if the grain orentation is acceptable. However, when I come across a block with good grain running different from the squared block i'll shape it first. Then shape a couple of cherry blocks and try to get the drilling down well enough to go back to the briar. After a while I imagine it could become my method of choice but for now I am just getting comfortable drilling on the lathe.

StephenDownie · Post by **StephenDownie** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:38 pm

I've been shaping first then drilling for the last 3 months and it was not difficult to learn. I've been using my 3/4 twist bit which works well on the lathe. I think you will all be happily surprised at how easy it is to learn.

jbacon · Post by **jbacon** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:57 pm

hi stephen

how do you countersink the mortise and square the shank.

jim

marks · Post by **marks** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:58 am

Here's how I have been squaring the shank lately:

I cut a longer piece of delrin, and when I get the pipe near completion, I insert the delrin into the mortise, chuck it in the Taig, pin the back (actually, what will be the front of the pipe) with the tailstock pin, then cut a very thin amount off the shank. So far, it has worked exceptionally well for squaring up the shank.

Of course, this only works if you make a pipe that will fit onto the taig.

I think Trever posted a pic of this type setup on his blog a little while back.

bscofield · Post by **bscofield** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:32 pm

marks wrote:I think Trever posted a pic of this type setup on his blog a little while back.

Good... cause I don't understand what your talking about. Of course my knowledge of lathes and such equipment is VERY limited... hence my need for pics. I'll look for his blog article later, but in the meantime if anyone finds it could they post it for me?

Thanks!

StephenDownie · Post by **StephenDownie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:54 am

jbacon wrote:hi stephen

how do you countersink the mortise and square the shank.

jim

Hi Jim,

Well at first I used a delrin rod chucked into the 3 jaw chuck and the live center to hold it steady. I found though that there was a bit of flex with the Delrin so I went to Stainless rod and found it worked better for my purposes. I've heard of some guys facing the shank freehand, but I use the tool on the cross slide to face the shank. Works like a charm.

ToddJohnson · Post by **ToddJohnson** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:32 am

StephenDownie wrote:
jbacon wrote:hi stephen

how do you countersink the mortise and square the shank.

jim
Hi Jim,

Well at first I used a delrin rod chucked into the 3 jaw chuck and the live center to hold it steady. I found though that there was a bit of flex with the Delrin so I went to Stainless rod and found it worked better for my purposes. I've heard of some guys facing the shank freehand, but I use the tool on the cross slide to face the shank. Works like a charm.

Gentlemen,

You need a pin-guage set. If I have made or ever will make any substantive contribution to the world of high-grade pipemaking, I believe this is it. A set is about fifty bucks. With enough clearance over the cross-slide and a pin guage set, you can square any shank, with any mortise size to about 1000 grit in under a minute.

I'll be in my shop in Charleston for the next two weeks and am thinking of putting together a pipemaking video detailing some of these techniques. If you're puzzled by the method as described elsewhere on the forum, I hope to clear things up on film.

Todd

Leus · Post by **Leus** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:04 am

ToddJohnson wrote: Gentlemen,

You need a pin-guage set. If I have made or ever will make any substantive contribution to the world of high-grade pipemaking, I believe this is it. A set is about fifty bucks. With enough clearance over the cross-slide and a pin guage set, you can square any shank, with any mortise size to about 1000 grit in under a minute.

I'll be in my shop in Charleston for the next two weeks and am thinking of putting together a pipemaking video detailing some of these techniques. If you're puzzled by the method as described elsewhere on the forum, I hope to clear things up on film.

Todd

Todd,

PLEASE, do that. Usually, my english is good enough, but I'm having a really hard time to understand what a pin gauge is (google images doesn't help much,) how it works, and what it have to do with pipes

Regards,

bluesmk · Post by **bluesmk** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:31 am

Todd,
Please do. I, and the rest of the members shall be forever in debt to you !
Thank you,
Dan
Gabrieli Pipes

StephenDownie · Post by **StephenDownie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:00 pm

Todd,

I've been looking for a good set, but haven't found any affordable sets long enough to give clearance for the cross slide tool to get between the chuck and the shank. Is there any specific brand you would suggest? FWIW I checked the SS rod with some very accurate calipers and spun it on the lathe to make sure it was true before I began using it. If anyone took my advice and went out and bought some I would suggest you do the same before using it.

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:28 pm

Hi Guys,

Here's a pin guage set from Enco for $59.49. It's the one I use.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=DR616-8131

Rad

souljer · Post by **souljer** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:12 pm

Rad, I don't understand what that is? A pin gauge set? A box full of little parts that do what? What does it do, how does it work?

I've been using an old tool that's in the pipe-maker's shop I'm working in that I've not been able to find anywhere yet -still looking.

It's a flat cutting face bit, like a forstners and such, but it has a guide pin right in the center which fits down into the draft hole. I can then face off the shank or stem face, after shaping, with the pin in the draft hole as a perpendicular guide.

Is that what the pin gauge set is? Just the pins or is there a bit in there too?

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:09 pm

Hey Souljer,

The tool you're talking about is called an aircraft counter bore. You can get them at MSC or Enco.

The pins are just that. They graduate up in size in .001" increments. You chuck one in the lathe, slide your mortise onto it and face the shank coming at it backwards from the way you normally cut. Your cutting from left to right instead of from right to left. If your stummel fits the pin too loosely, grab the next one up in size and try again until you get a good snug fit.

Sometimes it takes quite a bit of effort to pull the stummel back off the pin, so don't leave any drill bits in your tail stock. You could hurt yourself.

Rad

souljer · Post by **souljer** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:59 pm

RadDavis wrote:Hey Souljer,

The tool you're talking about is called an aircraft counter bore. You can get them at MSC or Enco.

The pins are just that. They graduate up in size in .001" increments. You chuck one in the lathe, slide your mortise onto it and face the shank coming at it backwards from the way you normally cut. Your cutting from left to right instead of from right to left. If your stummel fits the pin too loosely, grab the next one up in size and try again until you get a good snug fit.

Ah, yes, just looked it up. It looks like that. Thank you. Is that part of what you're using? Or, if the pins are just pins; and you slide the stummel down the pin (as I do with the tool I'm using) what's cutting the stummel?

Are you saying that the pipe is just wedged on the pin? And it spins while you cut from the side? Is the pin just a guide that holds the spinning stummel and you cut with a tool mounted on the carriage?

How is this different/better than the aircraft counter bore idea?

RadDavis wrote: Sometimes it takes quite a bit of effort to pull the stummel back off the pin, so don't leave any drill bits in your tail stock. You could hurt yourself.

Rad

Ah, good point definitely here to learn from others experience. Got the message: Get someone else to remove the stummel!

RadDavis · Post by **RadDavis** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:31 am

Is that part of what you're using? Or, if the pins are just pins; and you slide the stummel down the pin (as I do with the tool I'm using) what's cutting the stummel?

I use the counter bore to face the shank after I have drilled the mortise on my drill press, however sometimes, if I'm not careful, the mortise bit will walk a little before penetrating. The counter bore doesn't notice this and cuts the shank face at something other than a 90 degree angle to the mortise.

This is where the pin guage set comes in. If I see a small light gap at the stem/shank interface, I select a proper sized pin from my set, chuck it up in the lathe, slide the mortise onto it, and face the shank with a tool mounted on the carriage. Now the shank face is at 90 degrees to the mortise.

A pin guage set is also great for stem inlays. You can place your inlay in the lathe chuck, drill it, face it, and then chuck a pin, slide the inlay onto it, and face the other side.

Friction holds all of this stuff in place on the pins.

Rad

Leus · Post by **Leus** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:05 pm

RadDavis wrote:
Is that part of what you're using? Or, if the pins are just pins; and you slide the stummel down the pin (as I do with the tool I'm using) what's cutting the stummel?
I use the counter bore to face the shank after I have drilled the mortise on my drill press, however sometimes, if I'm not careful, the mortise bit will walk a little before penetrating. The counter bore doesn't notice this and cuts the shank face at something other than a 90 degree angle to the mortise.

This is where the pin guage set comes in. If I see a small light gap at the stem/shank interface, I select a proper sized pin from my set, chuck it up in the lathe, slide the mortise onto it, and face the shank with a tool mounted on the carriage. Now the shank face is at 90 degrees to the mortise.

A pin guage set is also great for stem inlays. You can place your inlay in the lathe chuck, drill it, face it, and then chuck a pin, slide the inlay onto it, and face the other side.

Friction holds all of this stuff in place on the pins.

Rad

Ooookay... I think I'm starting to grasp the idea. Inquiring (slow) minds need photographs of the process, thought