Selling your first pipe

[Snowpipes]

Hello all and thanks ahead of time to anyone who responds with advice.

I've been making pipes for about a year (about 40 so far) and have not been able to allow myself to let one go yet. Ive had friends and family ask for pipes to which Ive responded that they just arent good enough yet.. I have high standards and a dash of hyper self criticism, which is not always the best combo. I am drawn to pipemaking to the point where, I admit, I am a newbie with big dreams of selling pipes as a living one day. I now am running into somewhat of a money pit issue. I have spent a significant amount on tooling and supplies and my girlfriend sure would like to see this new passion at least start paying for itself. My pipes smoke as well as any factory pipes I own. My mortises are corrected depth, tenons fit well, and my chambers are lining up,, they are functional. My shapes are definately coming along and one or two of those pipes I think are actually approaching decent. I dont like the idea of selling something, at any price, that I myself am not extremely proud of. I do have a habit of making a pipe I really like, and then looking at pics of the greats and realizing I'm quite shite in comparison and wanting to trash it.

How do, or SHOULD I, overcome that level of perfectionism? If I should, how do I price and sell these pipes without feeling a little dishonest. I see a lot of new pipemakers (some greener then I) selling $150- $200 pipes on Instagram and its a little mind boggling. Should I start off with super low prices (recouping material cost and shipping) or will that muddy my name for when Im proud of my work?

Again thank you all for the immense amount of help you've given me already

[LatakiaLover]

Pics or it didn't happen.

[Snowpipes]

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Here's a couple, not my best but I cant figure out this website it lets me upload some images but not others with similar file sizes. I appreciate feedback, I also have no illusions that these are great, or even good, hence my apprehension....

Thanks for the reply

[Snowpipes]

Ya kinda bummed on those uploads, I'm @tmarshallpipes on Instagram if you happen to want to look
The extra effort is not at all expected haha

[wdteipen]

Not sure there's a right answer for this one. If you choose to sell now, just make sure that your future self can look back and be okay with the price you charged for the level of skill. I can only speak for myself and I can say, looking back at my past work, I sold pipes at least four years before I had any remote business selling them and regret that I didn't wait. It's not the worst thing in the world though. Some pipemaker's far better than I, put out some sketchy early pipes.

[LatakiaLover]

Try this hosting site:

https://postimages.org/

below is a screenshot of what will be returned when a pic is selected.

Use the second option down---the direct link. Copy it by clicking on the line's far right blue icon, then paste here, and add img in brackets to the front of it, and [/img] to the end. (No spaces)

No ads that way, no leaving this site, and your photos can be quite large. Excellent resolution and color quality, too.

[DocAitch]

A couple of things to consider:
1) Have you posted any of the pipes that you propose to sell in the Gallery here?
If you haven’t, then I suggest that you do. I would not sell anything that a did not have at least a neutral reception here.
2) How are your stems and airways? The stummel work that I see (from limited views) in the 3 photos in the OP looks OK, but the only stem that I see well (the 2nd) does not look comfortable at all. What kind of dentition would an individual have to have to find something of that shape comfortable? As far as airways go, does it pass a fluffy cleaner from both directions? That is a high standard, and I have a few good pipes whose stems don’t meet that test and which smoke well, but they are in the minority.
I would suggest that you take photos of the recommended views in Premal Chheda’s sticky and post them in the Gallery.
I also began selling pipes too early and now have a policy of taking them back, fixing them (mainly the airways) and returning them along with a marked discount on a current pipe.
Also, the benchmark of “smoking as well a a production pipe” is about as low a standard as you can have.
DocAitch

[Snowpipes]

Absolutely will upload, there's only one or two so far ild even consider selling. The second one you mention I smoke frequently, and although looks very chubby, tapers down significantly toward the button, bad angle of photo. Comfortable for me, but I typically try to match the stem measurements of my favorite pipe, a Savinelli. Ive gotten a few to feel no different then that one.

I GREATLY appreciate the feedback . I will absolutely start submitting pics to the forum and use your alls responses as a very solid reference point, that is fantastic advice.

[Snowpipes]

Doc, yes they pass fluffy cleaners, I recently feel like I got that part somewhat down. Mortise matches tenon depth and fits snug without being too tight. I have experience on a lathe, the airway drilling has been giving me the least trouble thus far. My biggest problem is I'll nit pick a stummel thats decently shaped and then "over fix" (ruin it) haha

[Ocelot55]

I can't give you specific guidance, but I can tell you what I did with regard to pricing.

I, like you, had pipes stacking up early on, but I needed to recoup the cost otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford to continue to buy materials. I sold my first pipes for $30 - $45. Of course back then I was only into them $2 for a stem and $6 for a block. I wasn't paying for my labor, but I did make enough to get more briar and tooling. The pipes weren't great, but they smoked alright, and the folks buying them (at the time all friends, family, and walk in traffic in my local B&M) didn't seem to mind or care. Many of those early pipes were unmarked. As I got a bit more confident, I'd sign them with a dremel.

I must have sold about a couple dozen before I discovered this forum. Only then did I realize what some folks were willing to spend on a pipe. As I began to learn and apply my skills I gradually started increasing my prices, $75 for a few, then the all important $100 mark, then $125, $150. At about this stage I decided I needed to do some serious research and get some expensive pipes in hand and see how they stacked up to my work. I went to pipe shows, spent time with other carvers, and bought a stamp. Everything I made after purchasing my stamp was $150 and up. After a few shows I stayed in the $175 - $250 range for a while. This is when I did a lot of relationship building with customers, which, I'd argue, is a larger component of success than the actual quality of your pipe.

It's been my experience that after the $300 mark, experience, name recognition, and relationships are what drives prices. My pipes are roughly the same quality they were 5 years ago, and I've only been making pipes 10 years. The difference is that now I can make them faster and charge more because demand exceeds supply. The most expensive pipe I've sold went for $1100, but my bread and butter is still at my bottom tier, which is now $350.

That's quite a rant, but there are a few points I'd recommend you take away if you're considering getting serious about pipe making:

1. If you wait to make the perfect pipe before you start selling, you will never sell anything.
2. Be honest with your customers. Most don't want an S. Bang. They just want a pipe.
3. Get a pipe making mentor. Spend time in their shop.
4. Get to know people in the pipe industry.
5. Eat, breathe, live and sleep pipes. Handle them, smoke them, make them, refurbish them, study them.

[Snowpipes]

Thanks a lot Ocelot, thats the exact type of advice I was hoping for. Only issue I have to overcome is I live in the Northeast Kingdom, Vermont about 10 miles from the Canadian border. I am VERY far from any pipemakers I am aware of. I guess my best bet would be Montreal which is about an hour and a half not including border crossing.

I wouldnt even know where to begin with such an imposition as a request for tutelage.

[Ocelot55]

Make it a priority to go to a show. Preferably not Chicago for the first one; there's too much there to absorb without some prep. The NASPC show in Columbus is a medium sized show in driving range of many great carvers. I get requests from random folks to drop in all the time. I'm sure other carvers get the same. Just be respectful of their time and schedule in advance. I think you'll find folks more than happy to help.

[luttrell31]

I have just recently started selling some pipes. Basically it came to the point that if I wanted to keep making them I had to at least try to cover the materials. (wife orders...) So I sell for around $35-65 shipped depending on the pipe. I am clear with all of the buyers that I am a fairly new pipemaker and that I will answer any question or fix any issue that they have. So far I have had nothing but good to great feedback. So I plan to continue this process until I feel like my pipes justify a price bump or I get overwhelmed with people wanting them. My best advice is take everything you can from this forum and learn from what is said and then be crystal clear when selling the pipes. Then if you can, get feedback from the buyers, how it smoked, if they are happy with it, etc... If someone pays $45 for a pipe that looks and feels like a $75-100 pipe they won't be disappointed, but if they pay $100 for a pipe that looks and smokes like a $45 pipe you won't sell many more. Just my 2 cents.

[Snowpipes]

If someone pays $45 for a pipe that looks and feels like a $75-100 pipe they won't be disappointed, but if they pay $100 for a pipe that looks and smokes like a $45 pipe you won't sell many more. Just my 2 cents.

Great advice. Thank you

[Massis]

Make it a priority to go to a show. Preferably not Chicago for the first one; there's too much there to absorb without some prep. The NASPC show in Columbus is a medium sized show in driving range of many great carvers. I get requests from random folks to drop in all the time. I'm sure other carvers get the same. Just be respectful of their time and schedule in advance. I think you'll find folks more than happy to help.

Still quite envious of the US in that regard. The only pipeshows "around" here are still many hours driving away, and save for 1 very large "industry-conference" (where most of the stands are pipe making factories), all of them are pipesmokers shows, not pipemakers shows (as in people get together to smoke pipes, maybe there's 1 or 2 carvers coming out).

If I wanted to visit a respected maker in their shop for some mentoring, I'd have to drive at least 7-8 hours... Only to end up in a country who's language I don't speak.

The only time I've had that chance did make it worth while though, as Teddy Knudsen was kind enough to let me visit him and his wife in their wonderful home in Aarhus, Denmark.

[DocAitch]

It’s not super easy in the US either. New York is 4+ hours North for me, Richmond 4 hours South, Columbus is 7 hours West and Chicago is 14 hours West. Luckily there are 5 pipe makers here in Maryland within a 1 hour radius.
I think the guys in the middle of the country are even more spread out. A friend in Chicago thinks nothing of a 14 hour drive for a few days visit.
When I was stationed in Germany while in the Army, everything seemed to be so close together (but my language skills are limited) so that is a point.
DocAitch

[LatakiaLover]

Mentoring, feedback, or even casual advice regarding shape(s) and processes should not be a new carver's first concern.

The language of the pipemaking realm is TOOLS... meaning the ability to create---bring into existence---a real-world, three dimensional example of what your mind sees or wants.

What tools to reach for, in what order, and how to use them to make a certain "thing" happen is the key. Tool literacy.

What's the best way to get there? By copying/replication. It gives you instantaneous, non-stop feedback from start to finish. A 3D pattern in your left hand and your attempted duplication of it in your right hand does not require expertise---indeed, knowledge of any kind---to determine if they are the same.

Such exercises can be done without limit until proficiency is achieved.

It's like learning a musical instrument. When you can play a guitar solo on top of the original through headphones in your bedroom, outside confirmation is unnecessary.

Specific advice? Get an inexpensive, used pipe, and think of it as priceless art object that you have been hired duplicate exactly. (i.e. you are the villian in a James Bond film who's been hired by Dr. Evil.)

Do whatever it takes with the tools you have available to make it happen. Experiment until a way is found.

If you think after hitting a road block that you might be lacking a specific specialty tool of some kind, ask this board. But only then.

Ditto re-starts. You might make a few errors that are unrecoverable, but only begin again if some experienced carver here assures you that's the case.

At the end of the project you will have learned ten times as much in one tenth the time---and spent only a fraction of the money---than if you'd gone the usual route of creating dozens of throw-away "shop pipes".

[Snowpipes]

Thanks all, been cranking away at billiards and Canadians this week. I'll pick the one I am least disappointed with and throw it up in the Gallery for you all to critique.

LatakiaLover, I'm trying to match a Savinelli billiard and a billiard my grandfather passed down by Bertram in Washington. Its a gorgeous little pipe.

In terms of visiting people and shows, COVID is preventative at the moment, hopefully I'll get to meet some of you at a show next year. The response here is amazing thank you all, shouldve joined earlier, but a las, social anxiety exists even on the internet haha