does this stem still need a tenon?

[calsbeek]

If Micah sees this: I hope you don't mind the pic.

how does one construct such a stem? Is there a mortise/tenon under that briar, or does the stem just taper in to the briar snuggly?

[baweaverpipes]

There is a tenon. The mortise has been counter-sunk.

[calsbeek]

could you give me a sense for how large the diameter of the countersink is? And so does one turn the stem down to get it into the countersunk part?

[baweaverpipes]

The countersink is a few thous. larger than the stem. You need a pin gage set and a counter sink tool (easily made) to do this.

[Massis]

The countersink is a few thous. larger than the stem. You need a pin gage set and a counter sink tool (easily made) to do this.

Could you not readily achieve this with a forstner bit on the lathe? Drill a 15mm hole with a forstner drill, then the mortise and then the airway?

PS: like all I've seen from Micah, this is a gorgeous pipe!

[Tyler]

The countersink is a few thous. larger than the stem. You need a pin gage set and a counter sink tool (easily made) to do this.

Could you not readily achieve this with a forstner bit on the lathe? Drill a 15mm hole with a forstner drill, then the mortise and then the airway?

PS: like all I've seen from Micah, this is a gorgeous pipe!

Yes, in a drill-first scenario this would work. Bruce is speaking from a shape-first perspective.

[Massis]

true, good point. Although I would assume it's possible (hard, but possible) to hand drill this with a forstner bit or even a very large brad point, before drilling mortise and airway?

[DocAitch]

I think that if you counter bore first and then drill a mortise by hand, it will very difficult to keep the axis of the counter bore and the mortise the same. In this case that malalignment would be hidden by the surrounding skirt of briar, but you would know it was there.
Piloted counter bores are available from Enco Tools. These require that the pilot ride a pre drilled mortise hole. They are available in various sizes and the pilots are sold separately. Counter bores run roughly $25-60,depending on size and pilots run a couple of bucks.
Thanks for sharing that photo. I am some what new to modern pipe making and had not seen this before.
DocAitch

[Massis]

good point again, and a rather silly oversight in my previous remark...

[DocAitch]

If you look at the thread "Frankenpipe" below, there is a mortise facer made from an oak dowel and an ebonite pilot, turned to fit the dowel and the "mortise" hole.(second photo). The counterbore recess was hogged out with a Dremel with a cylindrical bit, to get into the ball park.
A sand paper disc was cut to fit the end of the dowel counter bore facer and glued on and the device turned by hand. The face of the mortise area that you see in the first photo is the result of just a few minutes of hand during the device. It was left rough because it was to be glued, but by changing the sand paper disc grit, it can be smoothed.
DocAitch

[Tyler]

true, good point. Although I would assume it's possible (hard, but possible) to hand drill this with a forstner bit or even a very large brad point, before drilling mortise and airway?

Sure, theoretically, though as you say it would be incredibly difficult. If you picture what's going on with the process, you be drilling into a non-flat, highly irregular surface. It's hard enough to get a normal 5/16" bit go where you want when drilling by hand into the raw plateau. I cannot imagine doing it with a Forster.

I'm trying to follow your interest in this. Are you trying to figure out how to do it to a pipe, or are you just curious about all the ways it could possibly be done? I initially presumed the former, but if it's the latter the options are near limitless, though not all equally reasonable. If it's the former, I recommend you looking into the countersink tool Bruce mentioned. If you shape first, you'll use this tool a LOT.

[Massis]

At this point it's a bit of both. I'm not currently making a pipe like this, but I intend to in the near future. However that pipe will most likely be a drill-first pipe (as all my pipes are at this point). I think you would best see it as me trying to figure out a handful of options to go about, so that I can pick my preferred one for when I try it myself in the near future

As admitted before though, my suggested method had a huge oversight in the fact that mortise and counterbore would never end up perfectly aligned, not to mention as you state the problem of drilling into raw plateaux with a forstner.
Simply put: it wouldn't work unless drilling first on a lathe, in which case it would be rather simple.

PS: I think we're talking counterbores here, not countersinks? Afaik, countersinks have a sloped edge, not a flat bottom, so they're useless to this regard.

[oklahoma red]

I'm certainly not trying to start a terminology whizzing contest but at the same time I don't think anyone of us would want to confuse any new carvers. A counter-sink cuts a conical shaped surface around an existing hole. A counter-bore cuts a cylindrical shaped flat bottom hole either surrounding an existing hole or not (as in a spot-face). What was done in the case of the representative pipe is a counter-bore. This can be achieved as described by either drilling a pilot hole first (airway or mortise) then following up with a piloted counter-bore cutter or, creating the counter-bore with a brad point bit as the first step then mortise and airway. The latter method works well because the brad point bit will leave a divot in the bottom of the cut that aids the subsequent bit in centering up. The degree of difficultly in making this cut on a rough angled surface depends on the approach angle. If the o.d. of the cutter strikes before the center point then you're going to have potential problems.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ection.png

[oklahoma red]

Sorry Massis. I wasn't trying to step on your reply. You made yours as I was typing.

[Massis]

Sorry Massis. I wasn't trying to step on your reply. You made yours as I was typing.

It'll take a whole lot more to offend me I actually made an edit to add the counterbore vs countersink part.

[oklahoma red]

An addendum: a Forstner bit can work providing it is razor sharp and the entire set up is super rigid. Slow feed rate until the point finally touches. Best done on a lathe with a very short shank bit. Using a multi-flute end mill in the lathe will also work (better than the Forstner).

[calsbeek]

Massis has highjacked this thread. This information was supposed to be for ME!!!!!!!



I was originally intending to try this on a drill press....is that a bad idea? a solid drill press vice, a sharp forstner bit to drill the hole, then a 5/16 to drill the mortice?

[Sasquatch]

No you're fine on a drill press, just as long as the block is secure - which is to say, presumably a drill-first application.

[Literaryworkshop]

Yep, you can do it easily on a drill press. I do it all the time, and it's about the only part of pipe making that I actually find easy. Secure the block in a vise or clamp it to a secure fence. Start with a Forsner bit and bore down until you're through the rough top. You don't need to go down more than about 1/8". Then switch out bits and bore the mortise. Switch out bits again and bore the draft hole.